"Negative, Commander."

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  • Hippodog

    #1

    "Negative, Commander."

    I've recently earned my First Sergeant promotion, and have stopped playing the game for points, since I have all the weapon unlocks I want, and have no real reason to continue ranking, except for ranks themselves. I've taken up a much more passive role as perma-Squad Leader, sacrificing points by keeping myself hidden as a mobile spawn point, instead of joining the fray and capping flags while the grenades are still flying. Before I would have took my chances to expedite my next unlock, but now I just want to own the other army at the end.

    I've found myself paying a lot more attention to the strategy of the game since 1SG, and have been basically running my own show with the squads I can pull together. It is indeed nice when my Commander knows what they're doing, giving me and any other decent squad surveillance support, supplies and Artillery where we need it, but i've recently had troubles with butting heads with Commanders who give me orders that contradict what I think is the best interest of the team.

    For instance, on Karkand, since pretty much everyone knows that map, i'll try to haul tail down the right side, and down the railroad tracks at start as USMC, or go over the hill to the left to Suburbs if the rail line is defended. There's almost never a problem here, since there really isn't many alternative strategies. The problem gets to be what happens after Cement Factory, Suburbs or Train Accident falls to our side.

    I don't want to waste a perfectly good, competent, listening squad on a meat grinder frontal assault, but my Commanders lately have been issuing me orders to take the next closest point to me, such as Gatehouse from Train Accident, even though I know the other team is gonna respawn there, and we're gonna have to wade through them, and still face them respawning if they really want Train Accident back. I'd much rather run back and take the further point of Suburbs, to isolate the western island, or go south along the rail line, and swim across the water out of sight of the bridge to come up behind Cement Factory or Factory.

    Commander issues me the order to take Gatehouse from Train Accident, and I don't want to say Yes to it, because it'd transmit to my team, and I don't much like saying No, either. Confusion, for one, from two seperate orders, and I know from Commanding experience that you want your people to follow your orders, but just how do you relay to your Commander from a Squad Leader side that you think he's better off dropping support and surveillance, instead of dropping orders, without getting excommunicated from Commander support? Especially how do you do it without voice communication, since Commander/Squad Leader relations do seem easier when you can actually talk to the guy?

    The alternative I suppose is to just let it fade off your prompt screen, like i've chosen to do in a few situations, instead of giving him a flat-out No, and making it sound like you don't give a flip what your Commander thinks. Last thing I wanna do is get ignored by my Commander, because he thinks i'm just using him for his toys.
  • TotalBF2er

    #2
    Re: "Negative, Commander."

    My favorite is when he wants you to cap a rear base, but forgets you haven't gone through the 5 bases or so that are in the way.... LOL

    Comment

    • Dairuka
      Member
      • Aug 2006
      • 2730

      #3
      Re: "Negative, Commander."

      I tell commanders 'no' without a second thought if I think their orders contradict what I think is necessary for the team.

      If they have a problem with that or started spamming "You have your orders." at me, I simply kick everybody from my squad, and disband the squad.

      That way the commander gets no points from my efforts. Commanders tend to learn their lesson when they lose points for being dingleberries.

      Comment

      • oddANGRYshot

        #4
        Re: "Negative, Commander."

        Originally posted by ent|ty
        My favorite is when he wants you to cap a rear base, but forgets you haven't gone through the 5 bases or so that are in the way.... LOL
        Ditto, or want you to cap the furtherest flag possible even if there is a squad closer. I feel like saying "Do you have your head up your a$$ or what??"

        Comment

        • [C22] yrethguad

          #5
          Re: "Negative, Commander."

          Originally posted by ent|ty
          My favorite is when he wants you to cap a rear base, but forgets you haven't gone through the 5 bases or so that are in the way.... LOL
          Originally posted by oddANGRYshot
          Ditto, or want you to cap the furtherest flag possible even if there is a squad closer. I feel like saying "Do you have your head up your a$$ or what??"
          There's nothing wrong with that. That's like the original poster said, going to cap Suburbs or Train Accident first thing as US. Take them from two fronts so they have to split their forces.

          Comment

          • 2nd-Irish
            Member
            • Sep 2006
            • 258

            #6
            Re: "Negative, Commander."

            That's what VOIP is for.

            I hate when a commander doesn't have a mic (or doesn't use it). If you can't discuss tactics and strategy during the game, you are still playing blind. Nothing worse than getting an "Attack Here" in the middle of friggin nowhere, and no idea why. If a sapper is trying to sneak into our base, or flank the main assault, the commander better be prepared to tell me that in language I can understand.

            When I command, I try to give some direction when needed, but I also like when the SL's can tell me what they are up for. They are playing the game too, and it should be fun for all. If they want to vary it up, or are chasing a badge, etc. I'll do my best to support them.

            Comment

            • ConscriptVirus
              Member
              • Oct 2007
              • 6369

              #7
              Re: "Negative, Commander."

              yeah i rarely see a commander with a mic...havent really seen one since the demo days

              and im guessing that he wanted u to take the rear base at all costs, becuz in karkand, if usmc captures that factory, the game is usually won by the usmc since they have control of the tanks and a few more apcs

              Comment

              • USI_Krusher
                Member
                • Nov 2005
                • 443

                #8
                Re: "Negative, Commander."

                Originally posted by Dairuka
                That way the commander gets no points from my efforts. Commanders tend to learn their lesson when they lose points for being dingleberries.
                Commanders get points from you unless you do nothing the entire game. His score is derived from an average of all live players at the end of the round. Unless you do absolutely nothing the entire round, he will get points off you. They never "lose" points... They may not make as many as they could have, but really never "lose" them.

                Having said that, there are some who seem to give meaningless orders though. I think it should be mandatory for a commander to have a mic.

                Comment

                • Dairuka
                  Member
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 2730

                  #9
                  Re: "Negative, Commander."

                  Originally posted by USI_Krusher
                  Commanders get points from you unless you do nothing the entire game. his score is derived from an average of all live players at the end of the round. Unless you do absolutely nothing the entire round, he will get points off you. They never "lose" points... They may not make as many as they could have, but really never "lose" them.
                  I don't agree with you in the bolded parts.

                  Originally posted by USI_Krusher
                  Having said that, there are some who seem to give meaningless orders though. I think it should be mandatory for a commander to have a mic.
                  It wouldn't hurt if they took some time to type out their reasoning.

                  Anyhow, even if you didn't deprive them of points, at the very least; you won't have to listen to their incessant orders and rebukes.

                  Comment

                  • stn0091

                    #10
                    Re: "Negative, Commander."

                    Originally posted by Dairuka
                    It wouldn't hurt if they took some time to type out their reasoning.
                    I take the time to do so...

                    Sometimes people get annoyed with me when I keep saying "Enemy dude spotted" 'cause I'm trying to guide someone around the main front or towards an unsuspecting sniper/whatever when the UAV is up elsewhere. Or when there's a person not in a squad who has the brains to loop around MEC on Karkand and I don't have any real way of ordering him around.

                    Comment

                    • Dairuka
                      Member
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 2730

                      #11
                      Re: "Negative, Commander."

                      Originally posted by stn0091
                      I take the time to do so...
                      You aren't one of the 'bad commanders' then.

                      Comment

                      • lethal_ranger

                        #12
                        Re: "Negative, Commander."

                        When I play commander I try and be the best I can be.

                        I find myself a nice little hole somwhere where I won't get artyed and spend the whole game in my screen.

                        When waiting for my toys to recharge I'll spot enemy troops, communicate with the squad leaders as to what I need done, hunt down 1 man armies trying to cap our flags way in the back (not gonna order a squad to do what I can easily do) or zoom in all the way and watch a CP and tell the squadleader exactly where his opponents are.

                        Comment

                        • Hippodog

                          #13
                          Re: "Negative, Commander."

                          Well, I suppose since I ragged on Commanders with poor directional skill, I have to balance out the karma by listing things i'll "Thank you, Commander!" for.

                          Dropping me an extra vehicle for my team, and especially dropping me a escape vehicle that I don't have to make three reverses, and reverse parallal parking to get away with. I'll never argue with spreading my team out from being in the same vehicle as a easy target, and the extra machine guns that come with them.

                          Dropping vehicles and supply crates in my path, and not where I just was. Nothing slays me more then having to go backwards, or stop to resupply. I get killed so many times because I lose ground waiting on vehicles or crates, and the enemy catches up to me.

                          Dropping a crate in a perfect firing position. Someplace where my vehicles can get between the crate and incoming fire to shield it from destruction, and still have excellent firing lines. It doesn't do much good to have to retreat from a fight to repair, when you can be up there with your crate and extend your life picking people off.

                          Dropping your UAV to support the point cappers, instead of the melee around a bottleneck. It honestly doesn't do any good to have UAV over 50 targets, in a space no more then 50 feet by 50, honeycombed with alleys and buildings. You can't tell who's where in the first place with that much compaction. You'll help us out a lot more to spot one hiding defender, or one respawn, then the 10 enemy at Hotel point-whoring.

                          Using Scan when your UAV isn't up, or is busy elsewhere for surveillance. You don't actually have to drop down in this mode. You can just click on the dots to give us a warning message before the scan fades, and give us a general idea of what we're running into. It helps IMMENSELY to know how many troops are up at Suburbs, even if their radar dots dissapear by the time we get there.

                          Giving a general sweep of where people are, point-by-point if you're on VC. When i'm commanding, i'll go down the line after a scan:"2 at City Entrance, 3 at TV station, Hotel clear, huge batch at Construction Yard, 2 at Surveilliance" etc. etc. Point out any fast-moving objects, but it helps a lot to know where the routes are clearer, and the big pileups are occuring so we can pick our way around, and avoid getting shredded while getting to a new point.

                          Following us on drop-down. I know it's a large swath of your observational bandwidth, but i've had my squad saved a number of times by a Commander alerting me to a potential ambusher ahead. Ambusher becomes the ambushed when the element of surprise is gone.

                          Comment

                          • Bloodsport

                            #14
                            Re: "Negative, Commander."

                            Originally posted by Dairuka
                            I don't agree with you in the bolded parts.
                            The commanders score is got by adding all individual scores from the commanders team, and then dividing them by the number of players on the team.

                            Also, the commander can see a lot more of the battle then anyone else, so chances are, his orders (providing he knows what he is doing) will be better for the team then what any squad leader thinks is best.

                            Comment

                            • Dairuka
                              Member
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 2730

                              #15
                              Re: "Negative, Commander."

                              As an experienced squad leader, I have enough basic intuition to judge what flags are most likely to be attacked next, so often I won't require a command from the commander, since I often have my own commands up anyways. Yet I'm often given commands that go against my intuition, and I'm supposed to mindlessly follow the commands based on the blind faith-based assumption that the Commander might see something that I can not? I fail to understand it... it's not made any easier by the fact that many of the Commanders out there, have this "Do this and don't ask questions!" mentality... Unfortunately there are many situations where that just isn't feasable...

                              For example... if I'm on Daqing Oilfield's, and I "KNOW" the entire USMC army is marching towards the City (A base with a Mobile AA + Tank), and the commander wants me to take the Oil Cisterns (A base with a couple FAV's). I just shrug my shoulders and either kite around and steal one of their flags that hide their armor, or I bunker down and prepare for a battle at the City. I don't care what he can see, the judgement of the Commander is poor. So why should I follow his orders? Is this based on the assumption that the enemy "Might" not spawn at the Oil Cisterns because they're all "supposedly" attacking the City? He probably noticed that for the moment, there are no enemies at the Oil Cisterns... but... given experience, the closest flag to the City will become the most populated flag. (Thus the most defended.) Since the Oil Cisterns are the closest to the City, doesn't the "Attack here!" marker seem kind of... well... stupid?

                              There are also basic ideals as to 'what flag is more important'. Say in Jalalabad, the commander tells me to take the Market while the Junkyard is under attack. I can't fathomn why I would give up an easy to defend flag like the Junkyard, for grenade-spam central.

                              Finally there is the issue of 'playstyle.' If I'm in the mood to sneak around and capture flags. I will do it. I rarely fail at it, so I see absolutely no reason why the commander would get angry at me if I'm on Jalalabad, and I grab the Hotel, while the rest of my USMC army is hiding by the Lake. Shouldn't he be happy that I snuck around and captured a city flag for him?

                              When I'm given a command, the first thing I do is press Caps Lock so I can see the map. If I see a red dot headed to the place where the Commander has placed a "Defend Here!" marker, and I'm within a time-frame to head that red dot off. I will make damned sure that I do it! I won't just leave a "Defend Here" marker there, hoping that one of my squad-mates will do the work for me. No. I only issue orders that I myself intend to follow. That is leadership.

                              Lastly... Irregardless of how much sense an order will make, I highly doubt that I'll ever listen to the orders of some dingleberry spamming, "You are the worst squad I ever laid eyes on!"

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