Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

PW, this situation doesnt come from bad AA design. USMC lost because they couldnt get to the land. If there was F35B doing 100+ kills and a competent chopper crew then comeon man! Something was wrong! And that was USMC party people being afraid of the land!

And Colony, I was actually thinking you werent happy with the new air aspect, but I see your point of view. I know I flew around a little, but I was pretty disappointed. I would have expected something a´la "Dropship" style.

Dropship is a PS2 game where you fly a jet which has 2 flight modes. Hover ajd jet.

At the speed of 300 you can change hover mode to jet mode and vice versa by doubletapping the Square key. So basically you command both jet and a hovercraft at the same time which made it a fun experience. Because one tool was being handled with 2 completely different methods. Needless to say those fat mofos took skill to use aswell. I was expecting something like that in BF2142 aswell. Fly up to 200, doubletap afterburner key switching you to jet mode where you fly as a jet in BF2. Fly down to 200, doubletap to afterburner and basically switch to hovercraft mode which is basically something like a chopper in BF2.

Man, instead I got something I could fly on the first attempt which looked like a tool even a baby could fly.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

I'm not saying it did as I noted in my original post Wake 2007 is a special case.

I'm saying all really high pilots scores almost always involve extreme amounts of base rape. I think base rape is perfectly legitimate and in some cases necessary because of the J-10 but fact is it shouldn't be as easy as it is and all bases should have *real* S2A defense. In addition A2A should be balanced out to previous patch values that allowed all planes a chance to compete. Hell even something as simple as a couple fenced in mobile AA launchers would be a good start.

On another note, getting 100+ kills does not guarantee that your team will win, especially on a crappy server like Insomnia. As far as servers go Insomina servers are the garbage dump of the BF2 ranked servers list and only the worst players and biggest vehicle whores play on them. I personally avoid those servers like the plague.

Ahem anyways back the Wake 2007 dynamic: First off that's only a third of the enemies tickets assuming everyone died and over the course of a long round (which Colony no doubt had) the ticket bleed alone would do that much damage to your own team. Also consider the fact that when you are raping an airfield (especially with cannons) a lot of the people waiting for air vehicles are medics. So another good chunk (25%+) are getting revived over and over again and as a result you're getting absolutely no ticket loss on the enemy team. Also 99% of the people Colony killed were absolutely worthless China players doing nothing but sitting at the airfield. They were contributing absolutely nothing to the team so it makes no difference if they were dead or alive (not including the ticket loss they accumulated).

When I'm flying a plane I always go for high value targets first as a rule of thumb. Those include tanks, APCs, other aircraft and helicopters. On maps like Wake 2007 destroying the tanks and jeeps sitting on the Wake beach is especially important. In fact getting 30 kills worth of tanks and jeeps sitting on the beach will do more for your team than sitting over the airfield and raping worthless PlaneWhore wannabes. Don't mistake my comments though because I do think it is *very* important to cruise in to the China airfield and toast the J-10 and Z-10 before takeoff but if that's all you can manage to do the entire round than you're doing nothing more than stat padding and as such are an inferior pilot.

I guarantee if Colony had spent more time killing the jeeps and tanks that rape boats on the shore in addition to keeping the J-10 and Z-10 grounded (this takes skill to micromanage) he would've no doubt had a lower score but his team would've probably won.

[GbeTech]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

The key to flying the F35 is situational awareness and good evasion. Typically, you need to stay up high ~400-500 feet and look for J10s below you. Find the J10s and trail them until they look like they're going to be flying straight for a while (rearm/carrier rape). Swoop down behind them and machine gun them down. Don't waste your time with the missiles, they are too random for consistent kills. YOU must play more evasively than the J10s. Don't try and engage them in a turning war, the J10 has a better turning rate and you will lose. The F35 is a missile magnet, you must not let J10s get on your 6 O'clock.

If a J10 gets behind you and you are low (~200 feet or less) start performing split S maneuvers and gain altitude ASAP. Go into flyby view and figure out which direction the J10 is going to go and evade accordingly. At 800 feet you can out run them easily. If you have a great J10 pilot behind you and you can't shake them at 800 feet point your jet straight up and shut of your engines. You'll goto ~1600 feet but you won't go out of bounds and you will fall back to earth and you can restart your engines.

After the J10s are down it should be easy street for the F35 because it's such a great air to ground attacker.

Rocker

Recovering J10 Addict

Thanks for the advices man...
I found this site:

http://www.combataircraft.com/tactics/index.aspx

http://www.combataircraft.com/tactics/split_s.aspx

It's very useful.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

PlaneWhore, there have been occasions where whatever I do to clear the beach tips to create a window to land, USMC does NOT advance. This is pretty poor perfomance not from the pilot, but from the teammates.

In Colonys scenario, a competent Cobra crew was airbourne, no doubt keeping the beaches even more cleaned up. You cant blame the loss of the game on Colonys game, which by the way is still speculation from your part.

Youve got losses in your record aswell, do you blame yourself?

107 kills say - he did his best. Im impressed.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

EVEN for someone baseraping, you can't disagree that 107 kills with no deaths is very impressive... let alone being in an F-35B.. It's a hell of alot better than being in a J-10 and getting that score... what's your kill streak planewhore?

[colony]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

I did what I could sir!!!! LOL

But Chris is right, there was a chopper crew (who I was in a squad with) that was handling everything else. My main target is always going to be the airfield until it is neutralized/seized.

Planewhore is just an angry person.

As for 2142 Chris, I guess its just a fresh take on it that makes it fun. The fact that no matter what, on Titan maps its all gonna come down to getting in the enemy titan and taking it down or getting back onto your own and defending.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

I did what I could sir!!!! LOL

But Chris is right, there was a chopper crew (who I was in a squad with) that was handling everything else. My main target is always going to be the airfield until it is neutralized/seized.

Planewhore is just an angry person.

Yeah that was blades/raven

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

But Chris is right, there was a chopper crew (who I was in a squad with) that was handling everything else. My main target is always going to be the airfield until it is neutralized/seized.

Planewhore is just an angry person.

If that was the case you would've won. I've whored enough aircraft to know what does and doesn't win the game. Camping the J-10 spawning and killing masses of people who keep reviving each other over and over again does not win the game (keeping the J-10 down is critical though) but it does give you a great score.

[.Churr.]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

As I keep saying, the jets cannon should be nerfed all the way down to something more like the AH's cannon. It's ridiculous the damage that thing does.

And the jets armor should be decreased (or S2A improved) so a single missile kills the jet.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

As I keep saying, the jets cannon should be nerfed all the way down to something more like the AH's cannon. It's ridiculous the damage that thing does.

And the jets armor should be decreased (or S2A improved) so a single missile kills the jet.

Jets cannon damage - 100 hitpoints
Jet armor - 1000 hitpoints

Sounds like a good deal and theres room for nerfing.

Wrong. Try using a cannon in a dogfight. You can literally waste hundreds of rounds and see smokepuffs, and itl wont do you a damn good thing. Cannon is severely limited by ping and latencey.

Whats the god damn point in reducing it to Cobra cannon, if you wont be able to use the cannon against jets anymore?

About one single missile killing a jet. Right. How about one single bullet killing an infantry troop?

[.Churr.]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

Jets cannon damage - 100 hitpoints
Jet armor - 1000 hitpoints

Sounds like a good deal and theres room for nerfing.

Wrong. Try using a cannon in a dogfight. You can literally waste hundreds of rounds and see smokepuffs, and itl wont do you a damn good thing. Cannon is severely limited by ping and latencey.

Whats the god damn point in reducing it to Cobra cannon, if you wont be able to use the cannon against jets anymore?

About one single missile killing a jet. Right. How about one single bullet killing an infantry troop?

People flying jets are so F-ing close minded. They think OMFG I can't kill other jets if they freaking nerf my uber cannon. Since when this is a problem? Decrese the F-ing armor of the plane so the cannon is effective in dogfights. This also should give AA's and even choppers a chance to kill'em. Perfect.

Now, they don't know how other players in the F-ing game feel. What about being in a chopper and in 0.4 seconds a jet in bomb mode strafes you from full health to toast? This is so F-ing retarded...

[Jamaicanyouth]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

Funny thing is, we still lost!!! LOL

No one would take a flag.

LOL I see me on there and I was on your squad, I am "Jamaican_War_Boss" well at least my gunner got second place. Whats funny was how they said you were hacking and all you did was to bomb and gun the obvious people magnets, like the runway and heli pad. You jacked all the kills, but the people on the server always blow the jet at the beginning of round, kick vote and team kill the people the people the people who do good. We blew up all the tanks, vehicles, and helis and they still won't go do anything.

[Blades]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

I'm not saying it did as I noted in my original post Wake 2007 is a special case.

I'm saying all really high pilots scores almost always involve extreme amounts of base rape. I think base rape is perfectly legitimate and in some cases necessary because of the J-10 but fact is it shouldn't be as easy as it is and all bases should have *real* S2A defense. In addition A2A should be balanced out to previous patch values that allowed all planes a chance to compete. Hell even something as simple as a couple fenced in mobile AA launchers would be a good start.

On another note, getting 100+ kills does not guarantee that your team will win, especially on a crappy server like Insomnia. As far as servers go Insomina servers are the garbage dump of the BF2 ranked servers list and only the worst players and biggest vehicle whores play on them. I personally avoid those servers like the plague.

Ahem anyways back the Wake 2007 dynamic: First off that's only a third of the enemies tickets assuming everyone died and over the course of a long round (which Colony no doubt had) the ticket bleed alone would do that much damage to your own team. Also consider the fact that when you are raping an airfield (especially with cannons) a lot of the people waiting for air vehicles are medics. So another good chunk (25%+) are getting revived over and over again and as a result you're getting absolutely no ticket loss on the enemy team. Also 99% of the people Colony killed were absolutely worthless China players doing nothing but sitting at the airfield. They were contributing absolutely nothing to the team so it makes no difference if they were dead or alive (not including the ticket loss they accumulated).

When I'm flying a plane I always go for high value targets first as a rule of thumb. Those include tanks, APCs, other aircraft and helicopters. On maps like Wake 2007 destroying the tanks and jeeps sitting on the Wake beach is especially important. In fact getting 30 kills worth of tanks and jeeps sitting on the beach will do more for your team than sitting over the airfield and raping worthless PlaneWhore wannabes. Don't mistake my comments though because I do think it is *very* important to cruise in to the China airfield and toast the J-10 and Z-10 before takeoff but if that's all you can manage to do the entire round than you're doing nothing more than stat padding and as such are an inferior pilot.

I guarantee if Colony had spent more time killing the jeeps and tanks that rape boats on the shore in addition to keeping the J-10 and Z-10 grounded (this takes skill to micromanage) he would've no doubt had a lower score but his team would've probably won.

You cant et 107 kills JUST baseraping airfield. I go back every 30 seconds destroy the J10 and Z10, then go and clear off the tips etc etc..

By the way, I was the chopper crew, and WE were clearing EVERYTHING on the tips, so colony wouldnt have many kills there anyways...

People flying jets are so F-ing close minded. They think OMFG I can't kill other jets if they freaking nerf my uber cannon. Since when this is a problem? Decrese the F-ing armor of the plane so the cannon is effective in dogfights. This also should give AA's and even choppers a chance to kill'em. Perfect.

Now, they don't know how other players in the F-ing game feel. What about being in a chopper and in 0.4 seconds a jet in bomb mode strafes you from full health to toast? This is so F-ing retarded...

Up the chopper armor! Thats all that needs to be done. The jet cannon is awesome, ALTHOUGH PoE2 has come up with a pretty cool balance with the cannon. Its like three weak cannons, instead of one big one.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

People flying jets are so F-ing close minded. They think OMFG I can't kill other jets if they freaking nerf my uber cannon. Since when this is a problem? Decrese the F-ing armor of the plane so the cannon is effective in dogfights. This also should give AA's and even choppers a chance to kill'em. Perfect.

Tell me one good reason why in the name of all of whats holy should a chopper be able to kill a jet, passing at 1000+ KPH, with a quick burst of the cannon?

Why should a land troop be guaranteed of a kill with a simple click and point manner?

This has nothing to do with being close minded. In fact, I would propose a whole list of various tweaks and nerfs for a jet, I just choose not to because Ive posted them all up everywhere.

Im all up for punishing a pilot for their tactical mistakes. But please... Your nerf just begs for 2 guys with PKMs keeping a jet grounded.

Now, they don't know how other players in the F-ing game feel. What about being in a chopper and in 0.4 seconds a jet in bomb mode strafes you from full health to toast? This is so F-ing retarded...

This I agree on. Ive been thinking about chopper situation being retarded from the day the took a huge bite out of their armor.

Im a player whos played all BF2 aspects, from AT to helicopter piloting. Im also a player playing with 150-200 ping. Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to hit a moving target with the cannon with that latency? And this kind of ping isnt even a "Big" one.

[colony]

Re: Who said Wake Island is unbalanced??

If that was the case you would've won. I've whored enough aircraft to know what does and doesn't win the game. Camping the J-10 spawning and killing masses of people who keep reviving each other over and over again does not win the game (keeping the J-10 down is critical though) but it does give you a great score.

I have a winning ratio on Wake Island playing almost exclusively as USMC. I think it is safe to say I help the team TREMENDOUSLY.