Improving Squad play

[imported_[C*]Indest]

How about this idea?

I know it will not be implemented as EA would need to rework their ranking system - but i think it could have worked.

Simple, Spawn on a squad leader and get 1point.

People care about their points and ranks so rather than being a load wolf or even in a squad, rather than spwaning at the normal spawn point, they would spawn on a SL,

Also, we could implement the following

Reveive a SL get an extra point
Give out amma to SL get an extra point
Capture a flag near a SL get an extra point
Defend a flag near the a SL get an extra point

Think about it, a SL leader would be surrounded by team mates.

[Batausu]

Re: Improving Squad play

And make those points count only if winning the round.
And you loose the points if you leave the squad.

[Six.]

Re: Improving Squad play

Aren't we making it just a bit TOO easy to score points for being in a squad? it doesn't help that there are squad members who never stay NEAR the squad upon spawning.

I reckon points should be scored per 10 minutes a person sticks to the squad, and points are awarded to Squad Leaders who delegates objectives, for accomplishing objectives, and also for squad-mates who accomplish objectives.

As with Commander indicated objectives, good + points for SL's who accept it, but they lose those points if they fail (i.e; someone else beats them to it, or if they accept and don't do anything/get near the objective within the next 5 minutes). No points deducted if the commander changes his mind about the objective.

This would probably help address the lack of teamwork and teamplayers on BF2; other than that, I suppose it might even encourage people to join squads and contribute them. This way BF2 doesn't become another mindless deathmatch, but something a little closer to real tactical and strategic combat.

[[BF2]Bonsai]

Re: Improving Squad play

Great Ideas!
Played commander as often as i could get the position the last couple of weeks. (stupid time requirements...) And what i am most annoyed with is when there is not even a single person in your team that tries to win the round. Which requires to stop the ticket bleeding and holding more flags than the enemy. But all your team does is spawning at this one flag and attacking the incoming enemies. Sure...a lot of kills mean a lot of points. But there is no possibility to win the round for your team.
I would welcome any change that improves teamwork and rewards teamwork for winning the map.

[Six.]

Re: Improving Squad play

Great Ideas!
Played commander as often as i could get the position the last couple of weeks. (stupid time requirements...) And what i am most annoyed with is when there is not even a single person in your team that tries to win the round. Which requires to stop the ticket bleeding and holding more flags than the enemy. But all your team does is spawning at this one flag and attacking the incoming enemies. Sure...a lot of kills mean a lot of points. But there is no possibility to win the round for your team.
I would welcome any change that improves teamwork and rewards teamwork for winning the map.

Oh yeah, and of course- you don't know how many squads I see... with a squad member on every bloody corner of the map... I mean, if they're doing any surveying or something like that, fine! but considering surveying isn't really any good in BF2...

Don't get me wrong though, I've seen some of the greatest squad-work before too. I remember watching a collective effort as a sniper on a roof: a squad taking a tank down together. Their AT shoots at the back of a tank and gets it's attention, and as the tank's attention is diverted, another squad member heads out and plants some C4 on the tank, while the support behind him watches his back and guns down 4 enemies coming his way to get rid of the threat to their tank. The tank was taken care of, and the CP was quickly captured; and they just disappear off to the next objective. They must've been a clan or something, working REALLY closely together, coz I gotta say- no one could possibly stand up to the strength of that alone.

[Batausu]

Re: Improving Squad play

How about this idea for commanders?

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97776

[The_Misfit]

Re: Improving Squad play

just look for a squad that sticks together, join it, and enjoy.... if guys in your own squad arent hanging with you try using VoIP or Squad chat to encourage them, if that doesnt work get into another squad..

[Six.]

Re: Improving Squad play

just look for a squad that sticks together, join it, and enjoy.... if guys in your own squad arent hanging with you try using VoIP or Squad chat to encourage them, if that doesnt work get into another squad..

I still reckon my 'points for sticking together and accomplishing objectives' idea would curb the problem of excessive 'rogue-players'. :P

[[BF2]Bonsai]

Re: Improving Squad play

But normally it takes more then one organised squad to win the round.
How often have i been in a well formed squad hurrying from one flag to the next...attacking the enemy only if necessary. (Stealth and Quickness is your friend if you plan to get as many flags as possible.) And after the 4th or 5th flag you have a look on your map and realise that the rest of your team isn`t defending or even spawning at any of your captured flags because they don`t realise it or don`t want it? It`s much cooler to spawn at the point where you can kill 2 guys with nades or claymores before you die than helping your team to win the round.
The problem is that on ranked servers nobody cares for the tickets...which decide who wins the round...but everyone is concerned in how many points he can whore as easy as possible. No tactics, no actions that secure the win for your team but not as many kills (= points) as spamming grenades from behind your bush for 5 minutes.

[SciFiMan]

Re: Improving Squad play

I like the concept in general, except that it probably only work in clans. There are just to many ineffective squad leaders, or they don't know it. I have to tell ya, squad members come and go so fast that often I'll rotate up to SL and it will be 10 minutes before I figure out I'm in charge. By then others have left because I haven't been leading. Most people don't have a mic and if I'm in a fire fight I don't have time to read the text scrolling by. I only look at it if I'm bored.

Without adding automatic squad membership, and perhaps sticky leaders (if you become a SL you're stuck with that role for the round), there isn't much hope on public servers with random players.

[tAnG1]

Re: Improving Squad play

if the squad members got all the points then no one would want to be a squad leader.

[imported_[C*]Indest]

Re: Improving Squad play

not really,

There are many times iv stayed back as a SL, while my my members racked up points by engaging the enemy as a lay behind cover.

[zzDimaxx]

Re: Improving Squad play

Thats all a bull$h!t.
The only thing i wish to be changed is the points for DESTROYING ENEMY UAV,SCAN,ARTY.
Its not that easy to sneak to the UAV and destroy it,not many people these days do it
so maybe if we get +5 for destroying strategic objects that would be cool

[disfigured]

Re: Improving Squad play

if the squad members got all the points then no one would want to be a squad leader.

Well that's the paradox isn't it?

The O.P was trying to see if he could come up with ideas to better include point conscious people in team/squad gameplay.

I squad lead a lot, and I know it's costing me points? But I don't care. If I did care, I probably wouldn't squadlead, or wouldn't be able to do it effectively.

People join my squad and are amazed how long I stay alive. It's easy if you don't engage the enemy unless it's a sure thing, or necessary to help out. But that's not the type of thing that gets you points.

Does everyone need to get points for everything? Is there nothing players do that they think doesn't deserver points? Do they need that much postitive reinforcement for every little move they make?

Or is it really impossible to expect players who are point conscious to be able to play effectively in a squad? In general I don't think it's possible.

The very concept of a team is for players to sacrifice there individuality for the greater good of the squad. Looking to provide an incentive for sacrifice is sort of ironic. It ceases to become a sacrifice if it's rewarded.

Personally I think with some of the players the way they are, I can see trying to cap a spawn quietly (which is an excellent tactic) , ruined by assault personal tossing bags everywhere in the hopes of gaining a single point. I can bet a good percentage of players if this type of point system were introduced, would be tossing the things everywhere at any time.

Dont get me wrong Indest, I agree the points system had far too much emphasis on idividual things. Including some incentive to join, stay in, and a accomplish a squad's objectives is infinately a better set up then what we have now. But only if it had been that way from the start. I think the "point getters" (now) would only see squad membership as another way to "rack up" points. They'd probably find some way to exploit it, or at least abuse it , to the point where you wouldn't want them in your squad anyway.

[helo229]

Re: Improving Squad play

Thats all a bull$h!t.
The only thing i wish to be changed is the points for DESTROYING ENEMY UAV,SCAN,ARTY.
Its not that easy to sneak to the UAV and destroy it,not many people these days do it
so maybe if we get +5 for destroying strategic objects that would be cool

I definitely have to agree with this one. Considering the ammount of work you have to do as a spec ops to get the job done, what with having to run/drive across the entire map without getting shot up, having to deal with enemy commanders who are normally sniping anyone who gets close to their arty, and half the time begging the commander for a supply drop so you can have enough C4 to get the job done, etc, etc. It's hardly worth it for the points, considering you can get 10x the amount of points just by playing medic and dropping health packs at random. Especially when you consider the fact that taking out enemy assets has the biggest impact on saving your team's tickets.