Anti-Air issues

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Anti-Air issues

Thats just avoidance and evasion. I do that with tanks, and choppers all the time, but they just move on and kill my team-mates. Do you think the plane-whores care if they miss one or two bombings, when it only takes 20 seconds at most to return to base/carrier to reload? 5 seconds if you cap a flag right next to their airport/carrier. There are flyboys out there with 2000+ K/D ratio in a plane, and I guarantee they only got better when missles were beefed up in an attempt to weaken planes.

Find me that flyboy with 2000+ KDR. I want to see that one.

If you fail to see an imbalance, then there isn't a pair of glasses in the world that can help you see; you're blind.

Actually I do see the inbalance. But what I see specifically is this- one guy in one jet can be a universal threat to everything equally. As PW put it for choppers- too much power for one player to have.

I want to beef up their ground based counters without decimating Choppers.

You cant do that. Simply not possible. Whatever is more effective against jets, is a LOT more effective against choppers. The only reasonable solution would be to keep choppers TVGM about 50-75 metres longer than STA lock range.

STA range right now (checked files) - 450 metres
TVGM range - 450 metres

Shortening their flare timers would certainly help them to survive long enough to TV a Mobile Anti-Aircraft no matter how powerful it is.

I never liked this idea because right now its just a little short of infinite flaring. Flares reload VERY quickly.

I also want to fix what is broken with Jets (But is a boon to them), and the way missles are guided.

Whats broken with jets is hitbox mesh design and heatsource location. If you want to change the way missiles are guided, then youre just dreaming.

You can add more skill into ATA missile guidance, but they will still be heatseeking missiles with lock delay, lock angle and "Tick" time with maneuverability limit.

From what Ive experimented, theres a good solution to make the worse jets have faster lock time and bigger lock angle while better jets have longer lock time and smaller lock angle. 1 second increase in all jets (except F35B) lock time will have a huge effect and prolongue maneuvering significantly.

Thats called nerfing. What you suggest opens the doorway to hell. This is afterall Electronic Arts/DICE that we're talking about here.

Actually. No. This would simply make jets perform an anti-armor role rather than anti-infantry role. Also, I must apologize, I didnt mean SPLASH DAMAGE, but splash damage RADIUS, while keeping the damage as it is.

Pretty much every one of your suggestions has been stated before a hundred thousand times, on every BF2 forum on the intraweb. Call me unoriginal if you want, but I actually put thought into my suggestions. I believe Roger Smith put even more effort into his.

Actually youve put nothing into your suggestions. All you have is a general idea of what should be done. Quite simply "make this better and make this worse". Im sorry, this doesnt cut it. If you want me to believe youve put any thought into your suggestions you have to try harder.

Re: Anti-Air issues

Hey,

Yeah that’s right I'm officially Po'ed. Why you may ask? Because anti air blows. I mean Hard. So what I’m doing is right in a bunch of emails to Ea requesting A: fixing aint air. and B: the adding of a " unlock" that will give the anti tank class a stinger missile.

Don't give some **** like " You don't know how to use anit air", because I do. It just a bunch of bull**** that you have to be in a plane to take out a plane and I have no flight stick so I am boned. or some little **** is in the plane bombing your own team. Two even if your two missile hit they don't take out the plane. :wall:

EA , more then likely will just block me and do nothing about the problem.


Thought you would like to know in case you would like to join me....

Friend, check my big *** thread on the subject (ala plane whores). You'll see the problems you're having aren't new, and that for a short time in the past, there was a solution to it.

If you are like me, and pine for 1.2, then sure, I'm on your side. So are many others.

[Dairuka]

Re: Anti-Air issues

They are in no way godlike. Just had a game. We were flaghopping like crazy and there was this good Su pilot on the other team. I was killed by the Su once. When I was in an APC stuch behind the tree. Every time we took a flag we were ready to run. We took teh flag to neutral and just sat back watching how Su unloaded 2 times, all on empty flag.

Thats just avoidance and evasion. I do that with tanks, and choppers all the time, but they just move on and kill my team-mates. Do you think the plane-whores care if they miss one or two bombings, when it only takes 20 seconds at most to return to base/carrier to reload? 5 seconds if you cap a flag right next to their airport/carrier. There are flyboys out there with 2000+ K/D ratio in a plane, and I guarantee they only got better when missles were beefed up in an attempt to weaken planes.

If you fail to see an imbalance, then there isn't a pair of glasses in the world that can help you see; you're blind.

The real question is- do you want to "bring them down" or "beef up their ground based counters"? Because even if the first one would theoretically work, second will decimate choppers.

I want to beef up their ground based counters without decimating Choppers. Shortening their flare timers would certainly help them to survive long enough to TV a Mobile Anti-Aircraft no matter how powerful it is. I also want to fix what is broken with Jets (But is a boon to them), and the way missles are guided.

I think the best bet would be to limit the LGM payload on bombers to 2 per magazine and reduce splash damage for those 500 lbs bombs.

Thats called nerfing. What you suggest opens the doorway to hell. This is afterall Electronic Arts/DICE that we're talking about here.

Decrease the time it takes for STA site to lock on to a target and beef up chopper armor.

Beefing up Chopper Armor would increase their survivability tenfold to .50 cal guns. I don't agree. Decreasing the damage that an Anti-Aircraft Missle would do to a Helicopter would be more viable if possible. Increasing the flares would be even more viable. Best part is, it'll help Helicopters even more since they'll be able to escape Jets more often with faster flares, where as increased armor, will only let them live a couple seconds longer to a gun rush/missle barrage/ram from a jet.

I want balance. I don't want Jets to shoot spitwads, instead of missles.

These are probably "newer" suggestions. Others are already gone through hundreds of times.

Pretty much every one of your suggestions has been stated before a hundred thousand times, on every BF2 forum on the intraweb. Call me unoriginal if you want, but I actually put thought into my suggestions. I believe Roger Smith put even more effort into his.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Anti-Air issues

Edited: Oh, so you're breaking the NDA, by stating that air and armor units in BF2142 are obscenely weak to ground infantry missles, or stationary installations? Thats nice.

Meh, not really breaking NDA. As you saw yourself from Camp Gibraltar video how "one engineer took out the BattleWalker". Its a clear hint right there.

My ideas in no way are intent on gimping planes, but bringing them down from their godlike status. You'll also notice that I would prefer a boost to helicopters, so you can't claim bias against flyboys.

They are in no way godlike. Just had a game. We were flaghopping like crazy and there was this good Su pilot on the other team. I was killed by the Su once. When I was in an APC stuch behind the tree. Every time we took a flag we were ready to run. We took teh flag to neutral and just sat back watching how Su unloaded 2 times, all on empty flag.

The real question is- do you want to "bring them down" or "beef up their ground based counters"? Because even if the first one would theoretically work, second will decimate choppers.

I think the best bet would be to limit the LGM payload on bombers to 2 per magazine and reduce splash damage for those 500 lbs bombs. Decrease the time it takes for STA site to lock on to a target and beef up chopper armor.

These are probably "newer" suggestions. Others are already gone through hundreds of times.

[Dairuka]

Re: Anti-Air issues

Dairuka, if I didnt play BF2142, I would somewhat agreed with you or at least halfway across your ideas. However, after a few rounds in the beta... You have no experience in what youre talking, as you havent played with weak and voulnerable armor/air in game about and I wish you never did.

Edited: Oh, so you're breaking the NDA, by stating that air and armor units in BF2142 are obscenely weak to ground infantry missles, or stationary installations? Thats nice.

My ideas in no way are intent on gimping planes, but bringing them down from their godlike status. You'll also notice that I would prefer a boost to helicopters, so you can't claim bias against flyboys.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Anti-Air issues

Dairuka, if I didnt play BF2142, I would somewhat agreed with you or at least halfway across your ideas. However, after a few rounds in the beta... You have no experience in what youre talking, as you havent played with weak and voulnerable armor/air in game about and I wish you never did.

[Dairuka]

Re: Anti-Air issues

a) fixing aa missiles
-the hitboxes/heatsources are screwed up on many airframes, which means that often the missiles will fly right up to the jet, and then decide to miss.
-aa missiles turn too hard, they cant be out turned. (this wouldnt work unless different aa missiles were fired based upon the lock)
-aa missiles should track the target they have a lock for, and only deviate for flares, otherwise they should just fly away.

b) balancing ground to air combat
-essex either needs radar or really long range aa, because the j10 will get them every time.
-the range of aa needs to be increased alot. if i can see the jet clearly, i should be able to lock on
-stingers should have no ground target so that planes cant just isnta cannon them, theyd have to figure out which one it was first.

I like the way you think.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Anti-Air issues

Personally, I'm tired of people telling me that Jets don't need a predator in every stage.

would you settle for a defender that actually works?

I feel they need a predator in every stage, so they can rely on ground support, just as the ground units require Air support.

i totally agree 100%. the fix doesnt lie in just putting aaa in every level though. the fix is:

a) fixing aa missiles
-the hitboxes/heatsources are screwed up on many airframes, which means that often the missiles will fly right up to the jet, and then decide to miss.
-aa missiles turn too hard, they cant be out turned. (this wouldnt work unless different aa missiles were fired based upon the lock)
-aa missiles should track the target they have a lock for, and only deviate for flares, otherwise they should just fly away.

b) balancing ground to air combat
-essex either needs radar or really long range aa, because the j10 will get them every time.
-the range of aa needs to be increased alot. if i can see the jet clearly, i should be able to lock on
-stingers should have no ground target so that planes cant just isnta cannon them, theyd have to figure out which one it was first.

Re: Anti-Air issues

Yes, but one missle would tear a new hole into a jet. I don't see why we need to shoot them with two in BF2.

How about tanks? Does it really take 2-5 AT-Bazooka hits to blow one up IRL? Don't you think 1 stick of C4 would be more than enough to kill a tank's treads?

How about infantry? Does it really take two .50 calibur bullets to kill one? I'd think a sniper shot to the heart would drop a man dead too. In this game, it has to be in the head...

Your arguement is flawed, because BF2 is. I seek balance, not realism as an excuse.

Jets are untouchable on stages without mobile AA. Even on stages with mobile AA, it would take a great deal of luck, and timing to take one down thanks to a Jet's ability to manuever around locked on missles, and a Mobile AA's ability to... not manuever around incoming bombs. We also forget that Mobile Anti-Aircraft vehicles also have to worry about Helicopters, APC's, Tanks, Jihad-Jeeps/Spec-Ops, Anti Tanks, and Engineers. Thats seven constant threats, for the Mobile Anti-Aircraft, in comparison to a Jet's... one... They have only Mobile Anti-Aircraft to worry about, with the exception of other jets... I have yet to see a Jet drop to a stationary AA, so I refuse to count that.

Personally, I'm tired of people telling me that Jets don't need a predator in every stage.

I feel they need a predator in every stage, so they can rely on ground support, just as the ground units require Air support.

Couldn't have put it better my self. I mostly use the AA platform to take out tanks, when there in close range, beacuse it sucks *** at what its ment for. I'm starting to wounder how that guy can claim to take out 70% of air craft. Perhaps there some hack he is useing? I mean unless hes playing vs chumps.

[imported_Voltage]

Re: Anti-Air issues

@Dairuka: good posts.:salute:

I'd say jets are balanced when the number of players camping the air field is reduced from 10 to say 2-3 and the TKs and forced TKs for jets have reached the same levels as for tanks.

[Roger Smith]

Re: EA Spam campaign.

S2A could use a slightly longer range versus aircraft but aside from that those missiles track fine. Whenever I'm playing infantry near a S2A launcher and see a plane I pop in the launcher real quick, fire off the two missiles and almost always end up with an easy kill. Doesn't even seem to matter if they flare as the missiles always seem to hit and that matches my experience when I'm flying. To be perfectly honest I'm not sure how you could suck badly enough to make a weapon that does all the work for you miss.

lol, you must be joking, this from the j10 whore himself.

anyway, about the thread, not only does aa need to be fixed, ground and air need to be balanced aswell

[Dairuka]

Re: Anti-Air issues

Yes, but one missle would tear a new hole into a jet. I don't see why we need to shoot them with two in BF2.

How about tanks? Does it really take 2-5 AT-Bazooka hits to blow one up IRL? Don't you think 1 stick of C4 would be more than enough to kill a tank's treads?

How about infantry? Does it really take two .50 calibur bullets to kill one? I'd think a sniper shot to the heart would drop a man dead too. In this game, it has to be in the head...

Your arguement is flawed, because BF2 is. I seek balance, not realism as an excuse.

Jets are untouchable on stages without mobile AA. Even on stages with mobile AA, it would take a great deal of luck, and timing to take one down thanks to a Jet's ability to manuever around locked on missles, and a Mobile AA's ability to... not manuever around incoming bombs. We also forget that Mobile Anti-Aircraft vehicles also have to worry about Helicopters, APC's, Tanks, Jihad-Jeeps/Spec-Ops, Anti Tanks, and Engineers. Thats seven constant threats, for the Mobile Anti-Aircraft, in comparison to a Jet's... one... They have only Mobile Anti-Aircraft to worry about, with the exception of other jets... I have yet to see a Jet drop to a stationary AA, so I refuse to count that.

Personally, I'm tired of people telling me that Jets don't need a predator in every stage.

I feel they need a predator in every stage, so they can rely on ground support, just as the ground units require Air support.

Re: Anti-Air issues

Grow up, get a job, buy a joystick.

If they'd fix the hitboxes on some Jets, Anti-Aircraft missles wouldn't suck so bad.

I'd also like it if they'd increase the recast timer by an extra 10-20 seconds. Jets should not get a "get out of an arse-kicking free card" so fast. Especially when half of the anti-aircraft, and jet missles don't even hit them anyways.

I also feel that Helicopters should have their recast timer decreased to at least half of what it is now. Anti-aircraft officially rapes them, and they don't deserve to get punished because Jets are unfairly godlike.

Jets and AA would officially own helicoptors in RL as well though. It's just hard facts of life.

[Dairuka]

Re: Anti-Air issues

If they'd fix the hitboxes on some Jets, Anti-Aircraft missles wouldn't suck so bad.

I'd also like it if they'd increase the recast timer by an extra 10-20 seconds. Jets should not get a "get out of an arse-kicking free card" so fast. Especially when half of the anti-aircraft, and jet missles don't even hit them anyways.

I also feel that Helicopters should have their recast timer decreased to at least half of what it is now. Anti-aircraft officially rapes them, and they don't deserve to get punished because Jets are unfairly godlike.

[ColdCircuitCash]

Re: EA Spam campaign.

Here is a suggestion for everyone that wants to raise hell with ANY corperation.

Don't send e-mails. They most likely will not make it through the company filter.

Don't contact Customer Service. If your "problem" is not on their error list, you are wasting your time.

Do send written correspondence to their Board of Directors. Be professional and legible. If you send anything like your post, it will get tossed.

Do post on their stock's message board. Again, be respectfull, professional and legible. If you go nuts and start ranting like you are in a TBF2 forum, you could get into some legal trouble.

Big corperations are concerned with image. Most of the investors are large institutions and may not have a single stock analyst on the payroll that even plays pc games. Your precise, thought out, well written greivence, along with any substantial proof, will have more impact than ten thousand online petitions or spam campaigns. Wake up the investors and you MIGHT get the attention that you need to see real change.

You mean Corporation?

CCC