Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

Becuase during a firefight 4 men will suddently drop their weapons and make themselves easy targets and help a wounded guy out won't they.

I've never been to war, but you'd have to be pretty damn stupid to do that, good intentions yes, but pretty damn stupid.

So you'd leave your best friend screaming in the dirt to die alone. Good for you man.

The military doesn't teach you to ditch your buddies unless ordered to do so ahead of time.

[VC_Resurrected]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

Something you guys didnt mention; the M16 does not have a full auto whereas the PLA and MEC Assault weapons do.

[Mekstizzle]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

So, you have not been in the military, you'd leave your best friend screaming for his mother in the dirt to die alone. Good for you man.

Well, it's that or die and have the 3 other guys helping get taken out too? Not even taken out, say you did go after the injured guy and these new-fangled bullets go and injure those guys, now you have 5 guys screaming for their mother, now you're gonna expect 4 people to save each man injured, same thing happens to them. Lemmings, we're not ****in lemmings.

Would you want to see yourself getting injured, then see 4 guys coming out to save you only for them to get slaughtered.

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

4 men, two to carry 2 for cover fire end of story. You'd try and save him as that's expected but it doesn't mean you go running aroung taking bullets for the team. Stupid soldiers are dead soldiers.

[imported_{9thInf}Padre]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

Umm, 2 extra clips is nice, but how often do you actually run through 4 clips without dying?

[cantfinddeletebutton]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

so one of the guns is better and has more spare clips and one of them sucks and has less spare clips...

[Sars99]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

Umm, 2 extra clips is nice, but how often do you actually run through 4 clips without dying?

well i often don't but like i said i was on wake, doing cra pwith the G3 so i gave teh M16 ago, wiht my mate on TS as medic i was going thru 3-4 clips (as when it coems to burst fire for me i tend to use bout 9-12 shots per kill [sometimes i get it right and do it in 6] ) and by the time i was out of rifle ammo, i'd wasted loads, used up my M203 and was working thru pistol ammo, called in for supplies behind a bit of cover and then fully loaded up again. probably the most fun i'v had ground pounding on a 'vehicle map'

[ArmadonRK]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

The goal @ WABL (the armies "Wound And Ballistics Laboratory") is not for you to kill your enemy, but to wound him, if you kill an enemy you take 1 man out of the fight, if you wound your enemy you take 5 men out of the fight because it takes 4 men to carry the wounded soldier back

& as to the question of "penetrate what?", an infantrymen uses any, & all improvised cover, & concealment, trees, rocks, man made structures, anything, & .308 penetrates, w/ out deflection better than any 5.56

Lieutenant General |SI|SERIALBUTCHER

peace:)

This is exactly why the 5.56 was sufficient when it was inducted as the US infantry round. But this is WWI/II philosophy, and you'll hear many people say this, was proven wrong in the Vietnam era and onwards. In the World Wars, the enemy were all trained soldiers, and that meant saving the lives of their comrades. Guerrilla warfare proved the 5.56 to be ineffective, as the wounded kept shooting back, and their comrades didn't stop shooting either. And that's why there is demand to bring a "killing" round back into widespread military use.

[Papi4baby]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

You guys think the 5.56 is a ****ty round, you are all very mistaken, it is something that i would not like to be on the reciving end of. A 7.62 might go right thruh you, and cause alot of damage, but a 5.56 the farther you are, will most likely stay inside of you and bounce around your insides, causing alot more damage. It is a small round, with alot of bad stuff in it to make it worth it's weight in gold.

[Lagadelphia]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

So much BS in this thread. The 5.56mm was not designed or speced to be a "wounding" round. The whole idea that it about wounding a guy takes four more out of action relies entirely on the premise that the enemy you are fighting actually cares that much about their soldiers. Name one opponent that the US/Allies have fought since the 5.56mm round was adopted that gave two craps about the lives of it's individual soldiers. It certainly wasn't the case in Viet Nam when the round was introduced. The requirements for the 5.56mm were to be as lethal or more lethal than the 7.62mm round it was to replace. It is also much easier to shoot and shoot well, weighs less so you can carry more ammo, much more easily controlled under full auto fire.

The 5.56mm NATO round IS more effective within it's range than 7.62mm due to it's fragmenting ability. Out of the standard 20" barrel of the M-16, that is ~200m. The M-4 has a 14.5" barrel that is 100m.

Years of studies from WW2, Korea, and Viet Nam indicated that infantry combat with small arms took place at less than 500m. I don't know if any of you have ever shot at anything 500m away but that is a long distance to use iron sights under combat conditions and score hits. Given all of that, the 200m fragmentation range fits nicely. The problems some had in somalia for example had to do with ammo selection rather than the caliber. They were using rounds designed to punch body armor and the Somali's weren't wearing any and also they were thin folks. So you had a non/low fragmenting round and thin bodies that didn't give it enough depth to do its job so they passed through without imparting their full lethal effect. Still given all of that, many Somali's wound up dead from that ammo.

In afgahnistan, the problems had to do with using M-4's beyond their effective range. The AR platform is very accurate so you can score hits out that far but without the fragmentation, it is still a .223" hole so shot placement is critical. This problem can be eliminated if the US would use something other than FMJ. The Us isn't bound by the Geneva Accords but we follow them anyways. even if it is to the detriment of our soldiers.

[abtomat74]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

If it were to be "realistic", you wouldnt survive a bullet in your chest.

Ask the 10 year old who took 2 in the chest from an AR-15 during the sniper shootings we had here in the states a few years ago...he survived and is doing fine.

Also folks...they are called MAGAZINES, not clips.

[VC_Resurrected]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

man this whole 'science of war' sh1t is pretty ****ed up when you look at it.

[imported_BlueBlaz0r]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

F2000 ftw.