Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

[Sars99]

i was playing wake and wasn't doing particularly well with my G3, so i opted for the M16 as assualt, and too my surprise i had 6 spare mags? when the next round cmae and i was on PLA i went assualt with the AK and it only had 4 spare mags like most AR's. anyone else noticed this, and whats the reasoning behind it thoughts answers? everything welcome cept flames

[imported_Predator]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

EA is stupid. End of discussion.

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

M16 has less damage than an AK in the game. This is somewhat realistic considering the AK fires 7.62mm rounds while the M16 fires 5.56mm rounds.

AK-47 in BF2

http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/assault-rifles/ak-47#ak-47-gp-25

Damage - 38

M16A2 in BF2

http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/assault-rifles/m16a2#m16a2-m203

Damage - 30

Oddly enough, the stats below list both weapons as having 5 clips. I haven't confirmed this, though I'll take your word for it :)

[Sars99]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

i'll check again, but i'm definatly sure the Ak has standard amount of AR clips

[vidh]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

Yes, it has. I think it's because of the AK:s higher damage, as Spetsnaz said


EDIT: w00t, half-way to Satan...

[aLi3nZ]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

Noticed that as well. Would be nice if it had 5 clips, I frequently run out of ammo and end up picking up another kit.

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

M16 has less damage than an AK in the game. This is somewhat realistic considering the AK fires 7.62mm rounds while the M16 fires 5.56mm rounds.

AK-47 in BF2

http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/assault-rifles/ak-47#ak-47-gp-25

Damage - 38

M16A2 in BF2

http://wiki.bf2s.com/weapons/assault-rifles/m16a2#m16a2-m203

Damage - 30

Oddly enough, the stats below list both weapons as having 5 clips. I haven't confirmed this, though I'll take your word for it :)

This is a little inaccurate, the in game weapon is the AK-101 which is an export weapon and also fires the NATO 5.56 round, respectively the AK-74 which is the updated version of the AK-47 fires a 5.45 × 39 mm round with a muzzle velocity of 900 m/s.

The true AK-47 does fire a 7.62 × 39 mm, the smaller bullets in actuality are more effective. The reason for this is the 7.62 hits so hard it makes a small hole where the ammo fired from an AK-74 will tumble when it enters your body creating one hell of an exit wound or even more fun, having the round riccochet off a rib and bounce around inside your chest.

The M-16 is the better weapon just requires a little more maintainance but other than that is a fine weapon and is being improved to make it last.

Fires like a dream.

http://www.diemaco.com/c7-page.htm

[.Churr.]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

If it were to be "realistic", you wouldnt survive a bullet in your chest.

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

If it were to be "realistic", you wouldnt survive a bullet in your chest.

My grandfather passed away with a German bullet still lodged between his heart and lungs from the Second World War, he kicked the crap out of the guy who shot him and jacked his Iron Cross. That little momento is still in the family.

So yes, you can take a bullet to the chest and live and it happens a lot. If you get medical attention immidiately you have I think I read a good 90% chance of living even if you wish for a time you hadn't.

EDIT///

I was right, at the moment it is 90%.

http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,80183,00.html

I think it was still quite high during WW2 as well sitting about 80 but I can't find a source to quote so take it as you see fit.

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

"Somewhat realistic", I say :)

He was referring to the PLA (Chinese) faction in the game, which uses an Ak-47. The AK-101 is used by the MEC.

The amount of variations for these weapons is pretty massive. This is especially true for the AK-47 because of its simple design and it's reach in the world arms market.

Regarding 5.45, read this - it doesnt get passed the hype.

http://www.btammolabs.com/fackler/ak74_wounding_potential.pdf

I'd also recommend this rather interesting article regarding the 7.62mm round vs the 5.45mm and the nature of the true effiency of NATO's decision to drop the 7.62mm rounds (the true reason why the standard was "upgraded" to 5.45mm):

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1986/MVT.htm

You'll find that the 5.45mm has terrible stopping power, not to mention it doesn't seem to have enough to do the bouncing around that you speak of. Aside from the politics, the advantages of using 5.45mm is an estimated decrease in recoil and slightly longer range -- the latter may be remedied by better training and marksmanship, while the former isn't significant enough an advantage to overshadow the loveable huggable 7.62mm.

[SQUiB]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

The true AK-47 does fire a 7.62 × 39 mm, the smaller bullets in actuality are more effective. The reason for this is the 7.62 hits so hard it makes a small hole where the ammo fired from an AK-74 will tumble when it enters your body creating one hell of an exit wound or even more fun, having the round riccochet off a rib and bounce around inside your chest.

Depends what sort of range the you're at. At any reasonable distance the 5.56 has lost enough of it's velocity and it will no longer tumble as you describe. With the effective range of soldiers rifles getting longer, due to quality optics being fitted, there are a few people calling for the 7.62 to be reinstated as the standard round. The fact that it actually manages to penetrate cover a lot better than the 5.56 doesn't hurt either.

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

"Somewhat realistic", I say :)

He was referring to the PLA (Chinese) faction in the game, which uses an Ak-47. The AK-101 is used by the MEC.

The amount of variations for these weapons is pretty massive. This is especially true for the AK-47 because of its simple design and it's reach in the world arms market.

Regarding 5.45, read this - it doesnt get passed the hype.

http://www.btammolabs.com/fackler/ak74_wounding_potential.pdf

I'd also recommend this rather interesting article regarding the 7.62mm round vs the 5.45mm and the nature of the true effiency of NATO's decision to drop the 7.62mm rounds (the true reason why the standard was "upgraded" to 5.45mm):

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1986/MVT.htm

You'll find that the 5.45mm has terrible stopping power, not to mention it doesn't seem to have enough to do the bouncing around that you speak of. Aside from the politics, the advantages of using 5.45mm is an estimated decrease in recoil and slightly longer range -- the latter may be remedied by better training and marksmanship, while the former isn't significant enough an advantage to overshadow the loveable huggable 7.62mm.

This is very true, one disadvantage of the 7.62 over the 5.45 is weight. Lets face it infantry carry a lot of gear and the smaller rounds mean you can carry more. Having an extra 60 to 90 rounds does have quite an advantage.

C-7 M-16 varients have an effective range of 300 metre as a single rifle and up to 600 metres in squad fire. I'd say that is quite good stopping power at range.

As for penetration, what do you need to shoot through? A grenade launcher will do the job nicely on an unarmoured vehicle and as for bunkers again the grenade is handy. In close quarters say in a house having bullets blowing through everything isn't so good.

Anything bigger and it's time to call a gunship or tank support.

I do think a mixed bag squad would be most effective though. Say mostly the smaller calibre chamberd rifles and a few heavy weapons mixed in. However, the downside is not being able to swap ammo so easily in the field if you run out such as being able to grab some ammo off your SAW operator if say he has a C-6 instead of a C-9.

Bring back the FN!!!


EDIT/// the NATO post was a very good read, thanks. Seems like my concern about swapping ammo was addressed properly. It's true that with body armour it might be time to go back to the heavier bullet.

[SERIALBUTCHER]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

The goal @ WABL (the armies "Wound And Ballistics Laboratory") is not for you to kill your enemy, but to wound him, if you kill an enemy you take 1 man out of the fight, if you wound your enemy you take 5 men out of the fight because it takes 4 men to carry the wounded soldier back

& as to the question of "penetrate what?", an infantrymen uses any, & all improvised cover, & concealment, trees, rocks, man made structures, anything, & .308 penetrates, w/ out deflection better than any 5.56

Lieutenant General |SI|SERIALBUTCHER

peace:)

[CDN-SMOKEJUMPER]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

The goal @ WABL (the armies "Wound And Ballistics Laboratory") is not for you to kill your enemy, but to wound him, if you kill an enemy you take 1 man out of the fight, if you wound your enemy you take 5 men out of the fight because it takes 4 men to carry the wounded soldier back

Lieutenant General |SI|SERIALBUTCHER

peace:)

Bingo! Also, it's good for PR. :p

[Mekstizzle]

Re: Not sure if people are aware of this. USMC assault

The goal @ WABL (the armies "Wound And Ballistics Laboratory") is not for you to kill your enemy, but to wound him, if you kill an enemy you take 1 man out of the fight, if you wound your enemy you take 5 men out of the fight because it takes 4 men to carry the wounded soldier back

Lieutenant General |SI|SERIALBUTCHER

peace:)

Becuase during a firefight 4 men will suddently drop their weapons and make themselves easy targets and help a wounded guy out won't they.

I've never been to war, but you'd have to be pretty damn stupid to do that, good intentions yes, but pretty damn stupid.