AA Questions

[Roger Smith]

-does aa even interact with hitboxes or just the heatsource?

-if it does, couldnt a second set of hitboxes be implemented that only interacts with aa and is bigger?

-wouldnt removing mesh collision from aa missiles help?

-is it possible to only remove aa collision with only vehicle meshes?

-the heatsource is one point right?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: AA Questions

You want to "fix" AA? In what shape or form? Whats the objective?

[Roger Smith]

Re: AA Questions

the object is to make missiles hit that are on target, that way the aa turn rate can be decreased and aa "dodging" would no longer consist of simple techniques that dont incoorperate skill, and tons of undeserved missed shots. missiles should never fly right up to (and miss) or right past thier intended target. if they are to miss, its because the target out turned them, or flares were in the way.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: AA Questions

the object is to make missiles hit that are on target, that way the aa turn rate can be decreased and aa "dodging" would no longer consist of simple techniques that dont incoorperate skill, and tons of undeserved missed shots. missiles should never fly right up to (and miss) or right past thier intended target. if they are to miss, its because the target out turned them, or flares were in the way.

First of all, tuning the "tune rate" of an AA missile is NOT an option. You can NOT tune it in such a manner that planes will barely be missed or hit.

Current is 15/15 (yaw and pitch)
pre 1.2 was 3/3
Accoording to my experiments the uber-turn STILL remains at 5/5.

So even if you finetune it close to somewhere 3.5/3.5 or whatever, you will still create a proplem. Some jets will evade it, some jets wont. Or, no jet will evade it, or all jets will evade it. Depends on your tuning depth and youll still only get one of these 3 results.

The problem, why missiles dont hit is because their field of view is limited. From 90 degree angle to 45 degrees, in order to reduce missiles "relock" hazard where missiles chased next best heatsource, friendly of for.

So no. Its either hit for all, or miss for all. And to please the bigger crowd, its gotta be hit for all. And accoording to my small and puny survey, people dont mind teamkills.

So, increasing lock-angle while keeping current turn characteristics will do the job just fine.



This actually gave me a nice idea... for ATA combat.

Suppose we alter PITCH to pre 1.2 and YAW to post 1.2, what would happen?

Note that ATA/STA missile is basically guided like TVGM, just that its automated.

[Roger Smith]

Re: AA Questions

First of all, tuning the "tune rate" of an AA missile is NOT an option. You can NOT tune it in such a manner that planes will barely be missed or hit.

they DO get barley missed, thats the problem, and i have a hunch it has nothing to do with lock angle. there is definitly a problem with the hitboxes/mesh collision/heatsource.

The problem, why missiles dont hit is because their field of view is limited. From 90 degree angle to 45 degrees, in order to reduce missiles "relock" hazard where missiles chased next best heatsource, friendly of for.

wouldnt it be possible for aa missiles to not track friendlys at all, the way they do for unmanned, or at least did at some point.

So, increasing lock-angle while keeping current turn characteristics will do the job just fine.

i dont fully understand the dynamics, but i do understand that you are saying increasing the lock angle will make it so aa missiles can loose track right? thats all i needed to know as far as thats concerned, thanx, but will there still be near misses due to mesh/hitboxheatsources? yes?!

Note that ATA/STA missile is basically guided like TVGM, just that its automated.

in real life right? not the game right?


ok so you are saying that if the lock angle was changed, none of my other questions would be relevent because it would all work peachy?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: AA Questions

they DO get barley missed, thats the problem, and i have a hunch it has nothing to do with lock angle. there is definitly a problem with the hitboxes/mesh collision/heatsource.

Ive had awfully lot of time to experiment my different missile configurations offline, and compare them to online play. In SP, missiles hit all jets, like they hit F35B. In online play, you get all that nasty sh!t.

wouldnt it be possible for aa missiles to not track friendlys at all, the way they do for unmanned, or at least did at some point.

Missile code does not have any indication to such feature. This will have to be coded in. But BF2 doesnt have any IFF system, HUD IFF excluded. But even if the HUD shows whhether its a Friend or Foe, automated missiles may turn towards the friend. Prime example is the Laser Guided Missile TK, which occurs every now and then.

i dont fully understand the dynamics, but i do understand that you are saying increasing the lock angle will make it so aa missiles can loose track right?

The missile turn ratio is not a factor, consider it as "unlimited capability". The problem arises when the missile gets close enough to the target. In this case, the missiles lock angle is too small to keep certain jets in its field of view and they "lose" the target and "bounce" off, which means, they just fly off somewhere.

A simple fix to the problem is to increase missiles lock angle, so that even if the missile gets close to a jet, it doesnt lose it from its field of view.

For example, F35B heatsource is back, out in the open, with a hellofabig hitbox mesh as a barndoor behind. Missile has no problems in seeing the heatsource, nor getting a hit at the F35B. J10s heatsource is hidden in the body. Missile gets close, and either loses the heatsource from its field of view due to the body or bounces off the jet because the hitbox mesh is angled. This is a theory, and its mostly not mine. I just connect the dots.

The proof is Sir Blades method of taking down J10s. Notice how the J10s pull to Right/Left and Up. Sir Blades shoots missiles off from an angle and missiles inpact with J10 from an angle in which the collision is detected. Usually they fly into the side of J10, and the extra damage is inflicted by the splash damage the missiles have (they do have it). This is ATA.

thats all i needed to know as far as thats concerned, thanx, but will there still be near misses due to mesh/hitboxheatsources? yes?!

Im saying that the reason why missiles dont hit certain jets, is that decreased lock angle has put certain unseen factors into favour of some jets. Increase the lock angle and things are fixed.

HOWEVER, the reason why lock angles were decreased in the first place is because of all the teamkills. If a missile cant see much, the hazard of relock is smaller.

in real life right? not the game right?

Game.

ok so you are saying that if the lock angle was changed, none of my other questions would be relevent because it would all work peachy?

Correct.

Essex, jets ATA, land STA are all different missiles. 3 separate groups.