The Aviators Guide

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The Aviators Guide

A cherry picked video of all your best shots of course will result in an impressive looking performance and that can be counterproductive when new and inexperience pilots attempt to adapt your bombing technique. I too would like to see an uncut version of your pilot technique. If your computer chokes when you FRAPs (as mine does) I'd recommend you find a nice Battlerecorder enabled server play a couple rounds and upload the tiny BR file for people to view.

Interesting bombing technique regardless but I somehow doubt it's even a fraction as accurate and reliable as my low altitude medium sloping single bomb method. Of course you've got to be lower to the ground to properly use my technique so you've got a small defensive trade off but generally speaking that's not much of an issue. In addition when you bomb so high up it's pretty much impossible to hit moving targets. Even a tank which is hardly moving in a sporadic fashion is virtually invincible if you use only that bombing method and cannons work better on stationary targets such as AA sites so really this method is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole.

However your A2A technique for downing J-10s is impeccable. It's virtually identcial to what I do with the utilization of the fly-by view mode to spot your maneuvering target and of course the all important firing of the A2A missiles prelock. Also you never start with air to air versus a J-10 which is very important because aside from cannons a close-range sneak attack with prelock missiles is the only way to down them reliably.

Good video and good guide but I'd encourage you to put a disclaimer on the bombing technique showcased in your video because in anything but ideal circumstances it will fail.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

PW, I can vouch for it. His bombing technique is impressively accurate and effective. I had no problem in replicating it using the HUD. Ive also posted up how to do it.

[ELI]

Re: The Aviators Guide

This is kinda off topic but how does his kills show the point count on screen and in yellow? Is that a little mod he added?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

This is kinda off topic but how does his kills show the point count on screen and in yellow? Is that a little mod he added?

Altered "Localization Files", check search for "Localization Files", theres a topic made by Drunken Pirate and some other guy. Check them out and follow the instructions.

[ColdCircuitCash]

Re: The Aviators Guide

I have a few questions.....great video by the way, regardless of how many shots it was, very accurate.
1. To Chris Redfield, i would like your post on HOW to do this.
2. Is there any certain point at which he releases...and how.
3. do you have F12 bound to any other key?
4. Is changing the "killed" to "Owned" illegal (ie: will i get kicked if i do it by PB) And if not, how can i do it? : )

CCC

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

I have a few questions.....great video by the way, regardless of how many shots it was, very accurate.
1. To Chris Redfield, i would like your post on HOW to do this.
2. Is there any certain point at which he releases...and how.
3. do you have F12 bound to any other key?
4. Is changing the "killed" to "Owned" illegal (ie: will i get kicked if i do it by PB) And if not, how can i do it? : )

CCC

1.-2. Depends on approach. I use 2 general approach methods.
*Target somewhere in the center at the HUD line. I drop the bombs where the USMC fighters vertical lines tip is. I drop my nose down to send the second bomb right after first with no spread. As you know, the second bomb drops with a slight delay.
*Target is somewhere in the bottom part of the screen. I drop when the target is between the vertical lines tip and central aiming reticle, drop nose down for second bomb. Depending on the altitude (if Im lower than 200 feet) I drop while holding the target just below the central aiming reticle.

But I usually use the first method. Its extremely fun once youve mastered it. Its like shooting loops from behind 3 pts line, fun fun fun.

Also, HOW I do this, is shown in the HUD use tutorial video. Which you can find here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5GLrGtrbnc

3. I have the F12 (I assume you mean the FREE CHASE CAM view) binded to F key. I use a joyctick, and I dont use the bottom keys on the JS. My hat is all used up so I use KB keys aswell. Im used to fly with WS(throttle) AD(rudder) anyway, so a few extra keys on KB isnt an issue. Besides, with Logitech Attack 3, I used F for CHASE REAR and X for COCCPIT views.

4. Those are changes in Localization files which are client side ONLY and deal with ONLY the messages shown to YOU on YOUR screen. You can download Ringmasters or SaladForks Custom Localization files, look up for them using the "Search" feature. And no, they are not illegal. I personally use RingMasters files and all my buddies whom I have shown my screencaps, also use RMs.

[Sike]

Re: The Aviators Guide

that is a serious vid it given me some kamakazi ideas

[*{82nd)*Commando]

Re: The Aviators Guide

How can I DL that video? Would like to practice this myself. But would like to have a copy instead of going to the tube to watch it.

Thanks!

[zipp0r]

Re: The Aviators Guide

Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar

its nice to see other pilots that can pinpoint drop the bomb from height.

good stuff!!


p.s. dont you do low flying attacking as well?

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The Aviators Guide

After watching the video Chris posted I'm convinced this method of bombing is inferior to my technique (which is nothing fancy and is pretty standard). You've got to ask yourself the following question: can this alternate bombing technique destroy a tank moving at full speed with a high rate of success with a single bomb? If the answer is no then it's case closed. Of course you can hit near a stationary tank with two close bombs and maybe destory it but with half the payload I can directly hit a full speed tank right on the turret nearly 100% of the time which gives me the capability to destroy two tanks on a single reload. Also I noticed that bombing in this manner does not allow you to soften the target up with cannons. When approaching a tank or APC to bomb I'll almost always hit them with a good 50+ cannon roads during my bombing approach and in the rare event the bomb doesn't hit them directly it'll still usually destroy them.

If it ain't broke.. don't fix it.

[zipp0r]

Re: The Aviators Guide

After watching the video Chris posted I'm convinced this method of bombing is inferior to my technique (which is nothing fancy and is pretty standard). You've got to ask yourself the following question: can this alternate bombing technique destroy a tank moving at full speed with a high rate of success with a single bomb? If the answer is no then it's case closed. Of course you can hit near a stationary tank with two close bombs and maybe destory it but with half the payload I can directly hit a full speed tank right on the turret nearly 100% of the time which gives me the capability to destroy two tanks on a single reload. Also I noticed that bombing in this manner does not allow you to soften the target up with cannons. When approaching a tank or APC to bomb I'll almost always hit them with a good 50+ cannon roads during my bombing approach and in the rare event the bomb doesn't hit them directly it'll still usually destroy them.

If it ain't broke.. don't fix it.

there are several ways to bomb and this is one of them. it is accurate... but depends if u know what your doing when going after moving targets.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

This is seriously stupid PlaneWhore.

For one, there are MULTIPLE types of bombing. I use Xennores method, "your" (the standard and VERY average method) method, horizontal drop and pure divebombing, all depending on whats going on. For example, if I attack a flag which is covered by multiple AAs, I gladly drop a bomb from 200 ft onto the nest of an AA.

After watching the video Chris posted I'm convinced this method of bombing is inferior to my technique

Do NOT judge Xennores video by what I made in my video. For one, I played with the lowest possible settings, and view distance was set to 80%, AND I didnt have any indication of the target on my HUD, which basically reduces at LEAST 200 feet from altitude, and 150-200 feet from approach corridor. My video doesnt even show how I play in pubs, and I do bomb stationary targets from 200-300 feet height with PINPOINT precision.

Xennores moves advantage is extreme, encouraged method for ALL JFS pilots. Because it allows people to drop bombs from safety.

(which is nothing fancy and is pretty standard).

Bull. The "standard" method is what YOU are using. Which is the simpliest and most basic method. You might not remember, but upon watching your video just recently, the one you made nearly a year ago, you bombed Con. Site using the same angle and HUD release as Xennore did.

You've got to ask yourself the following question: can this alternate bombing technique destroy a tank moving at full speed with a high rate of success with a single bomb?

Your method opens you for an attack. Xennores method leaves him out of reach of AA. Your attack is great for any and all types of targets (STILL; leaving you open for an attack), Xennores method is for precision-drop at stationary targets at safe altitude.

However, once mastered, theres proper lead, and proper hit in moving targets.

If the answer is no then it's case closed.

I think you closed the case yourself once you started pissing on a guy with great skills just because youre jealous of the publicity.

Of course you can hit near a stationary tank with two close bombs and maybe destory it but with half the payload I can directly hit a full speed tank right on the turret nearly 100% of the time which gives me the capability to destroy two tanks on a single reload.

If Xennores method is applied correctly, the bombs drop after one and other with minimum spread. Which in simple terms means- 2 bombs drop at one spot. In order to do this, you just have to point the nose down on second release. Its that simple. I use it all the time, even in casual attacks.

Also I noticed that bombing in this manner does not allow you to soften the target up with cannons.

If a bomber does what hes supposed to be doing, cannon use is minimal. I for example dont soften my targets, yet I kill them nonetheless.

When approaching a tank or APC to bomb I'll almost always hit them with a good 50+ cannon roads during my bombing approach and in the rare event the bomb doesn't hit them directly it'll still usually destroy them.

Thats because YOU do that. I kill a tank or an APC with a precision 2 bomb drop without using cannons at all.

If it ain't broke.. don't fix it.

Variety. The best pilots is the pilot utilizing multiple variants, each suitable the best for certain scenario. The more you know, the more you think, the better you are.


I think its NEEDLESS to say that if Xennore has mastered THIS bombing method, which I rank as pure art, then low altitude bombing isnt a problem for him. At all. Pay attention that the guy drops bombs in single mode.

[Jdawg790]

Re: The Aviators Guide

It was a great Guide, rele helps, thanks a lot!!

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The Aviators Guide

For one, there are MULTIPLE types of bombing. I use Xennores method, "your" (the standard and VERY average method) method, horizontal drop and pure divebombing, all depending on whats going on. For example, if I attack a flag which is covered by multiple AAs, I gladly drop a bomb from 200 ft onto the nest of an AA.

See that's what I don't get. You can outrange S2A with cannons by a huge distance. The cannons are faster than bombs and more accurate and you end up saving your bombs for the targets that actually do require bombs (large groups of infantry and armor vehicles). Practicing multiple types of bombing just leaves you jack of all master of none. If you stick with a rigid form and technique and use it over and over again you'll end up developing a godlike accuracy with that technique. Normally I'd never recommend such a rigid style of gameplay but luckily with airplane bombing techniques you only need one.

My video doesnt even show how I play in pubs, and I do bomb stationary targets from 200-300 feet height with PINPOINT precision.

Again 200-300... hell even 500 feet away or more you can fire in to a stationary S2A site before the box has even appeared and destroy it with ease. I can't remember the last time I used a bomb on a S2A site.

Xennores moves advantage is extreme, encouraged method for ALL JFS pilots. Because it allows people to drop bombs from safety.

No such thing as safety for an F-35B. If you're going up against a J-10 you're guaranteed dead as I'll prove over and over again and if you let S2A down your F-35B you are an uber-noob. Dropping bombs from 300 feet does not change this fact. Cannons travel faster than bombs and are much more accurate and like it or not are the best way to roast S2A posts. From a single point on most maps I can pretty much waste every single S2A site long before the box appears. As long as it's not past the fog in BF2 it's dead meat.

Bull. The "standard" method is what YOU are using. Which is the simpliest and most basic method. You might not remember, but upon watching your video just recently, the one you made nearly a year ago, you bombed Con. Site using the same angle and HUD release as Xennore did.

You got me there Chris.. I'll do crazy stuff when precision isn't neccessary and the clock is ticking. If memory serves me I dropped a bomb on infantry on the flag and if I had the necessary angle for a regular (much more accurate) drop I would've taken it but fact is you don't have much time with a flag cap and plus the addition of that crane over CS you've got to use an odd angle every now and again.

Your method opens you for an attack. Xennores method leaves him out of reach of AA. Your attack is great for any and all types of targets (STILL; leaving you open for an attack), Xennores method is for precision-drop at stationary targets at safe altitude.

Again the only thing that is truely stationary enough for these high-altitude bombs to hit is S2A. Vehicles will almost always move around enough to make the time to release on the drop far too long. Of course I shouldn't have to mention again that S2A is not an armored target and can be outranged easily by cannons.

However, once mastered, theres proper lead, and proper hit in moving targets.

Haha ok Chris show me an unedited video of you bombing and hitting many undamaged moving tanks/APCs (even jeeps) from these altitudes and destroying them with a single bomb over the course of a full round and I'll admit defeat. The only way you'll hit tanks from those altitudes is if your name is Nostradomos. Because once you drop that bomb it's out of your control and thus if that tank decides to make a hard right or stop you're screwed. The longer the time that the bomb spends in the air the less efficient and less accurate it will be. Dropping low and hard with my modified form of "dive bombing" leaves less than half a second between the drop of the bomb and impact with the target.. AKA one dead tank guaranteed.

I think you closed the case yourself once you started pissing on a guy with great skills just because youre jealous of the publicity.

I could care less about piloting ego now as I rarely pilot nowadays regardless. Believe it or not I want inexperienced pilots to do well and I don't think they can do well if they start wasting bombs by dropping them on weak S2A posts from 400 feet up. In addition attempting to vehicles from 400 feet up isn't going to produce favorable results. My method battle tested, is the most effective, just about as safe and produces much more accuracy and thus is a much more effective use of the bombs payload. When I'm on the ground I want my pilots to destroy those two tanks ASAP and I don't want to watch them waste a payload by doing a high altitude drop and doing nothing but scorching the ground.

If Xennores method is applied correctly, the bombs drop after one and other with minimum spread. Which in simple terms means- 2 bombs drop at one spot. In order to do this, you just have to point the nose down on second release. Its that simple. I use it all the time, even in casual attacks.

Did DICE recently create some ultra tank I'm not aware of? A single bomb plus a spattering of cannon kills every single vehicle in the game with room to spare. The advantage of not using both bombs on a tank is if you miss or fail to kill the target you get a second shot but for myself almost never missing a direct hit I have the second bomb free to drop on a flag or another armored vehicle should the opportunity arise. Less reload + more killing with the same payload = more effective pilot. Pretty simple concept really.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The Aviators Guide

See that's what I don't get. You can outrange S2A with cannons by a huge distance. The cannons are faster than bombs and more accurate and you end up saving your bombs for the targets that actually do require bombs (large groups of infantry and armor vehicles).

You seem to be stuck on the word "only" and "one". Xennores video was a presentation of high altitude bombing and "free chase cam" mode utilization in a dogfight. This wasnt a "how to play in a jet for one round" tutorial, such as the one you made. You practiced multiple methods in attacking vehicles and flags, great, but the aim of YOUR video was simply to show how an experienced pilot works in a game. Xennores video was a presentation of a few methods. To judge his whole play-style just by that video is a little ignorant.

As for cannons, great, they work! Even beyond visual range. And Im not saying cannons arent great. I use them all the time! But the variety of skills and use of weaponry is a guaranteed leap forward in efficiency and survival.

From my experience, when we get to safety, cannon use has more risks than high-altitude precision dropping. For one, if you use cannons, you may enter a zone covered my multiple AAs. You also line yourself up for a little longer against a pilot behind you. Now, I know youll say that you look behind you, I do too. But I personally have figured out some angles from which you cannot see me. Again, I dont think cannons are the worst method of attacking an AA nest. I wouldnt want to rank methods in their efficiency because a good pilot can make any method efficient. If we would want to rank, Id rank methods in simplicity. Yes, cannon use is more simple.

Practicing multiple types of bombing just leaves you jack of all master of none.

No. Maybe its your point of view because youve focused on one method.

If you stick with a rigid form and technique and use it over and over again you'll end up developing a godlike accuracy with that technique.

This is a common mistake I notice when I dogfight. Every pilot has a set of moves, and eventually (it takes me 1-3 chases) youll figure it out and create a countertactic. The most common mistake is one and only style on bombing approach. Yours is far more popular than you think. Theres also an angle of attack for which most pilots attempting this bombing method are open, and almost everyone uses their own ironed out escape method. Bottomline. The more traditional you are, the easier target you make. Ive been complimented for having an extraordinary flight "pattern" in escaping which really isnt a pattern, but is chaotic enough to drop most pilots off. This all comes down to variety. And variety is unpredictability, which in turn is survival.

And multiple mastered bombing methods does increase efficiency.

Normally I'd never recommend such a rigid style of gameplay but luckily with airplane bombing techniques you only need one.

Yes, you do "need" only one. Youre totally right here. But I "want" more than one. Not because Im a stupid kid at a candy-store, but because the more variety I have, the better I am.

Again 200-300... hell even 500 feet away or more you can fire in to a stationary S2A site before the box has even appeared and destroy it with ease. I can't remember the last time I used a bomb on a S2A site.

You can also get a sniper to keep an eye on STAs. You can also... yadda yadda yadda. I hope you get my point.

No such thing as safety for an F-35B. If you're going up against a J-10 you're guaranteed dead as I'll prove over and over again and if you let S2A down your F-35B you are an uber-noob. Dropping bombs from 300 feet does not change this fact. Cannons travel faster than bombs and are much more accurate and like it or not are the best way to roast S2A posts. From a single point on most maps I can pretty much waste every single S2A site long before the box appears. As long as it's not past the fog in BF2 it's dead meat.

Youre right, "relative safety" would be a better word. Its better for the F35B to stick UP, rather than DOWN. Whatever one can do, he should do to increase the chances of survival.

As for bolded comment. I have a 80-90% hit capability on stationary targets when I do want to drop bombs from safe altitude. I align my flight pattern for far LESS time than I do for a cannon run. I dont even enter AA range. Truly an "attack from out of nowhere". This is far more sattisfying and safe, than a cannon run.

You got me there Chris.. I'll do crazy stuff when precision isn't neccessary and the clock is ticking. If memory serves me I dropped a bomb on infantry on the flag and if I had the necessary angle for a regular (much more accurate) drop I would've taken it but fact is you don't have much time with a flag cap and plus the addition of that crane over CS you've got to use an odd angle every now and again.

Yup, which is my point exactly. While a traditional bombing method is still my nr #1 choice (cannon run and release at 20-30 degrees, in single drop mode), sometimes an opportunity arises in the least expected timeframe, and to save time and "tickets" or yourself, a drop from an odd angle or with an odd method is great, if you have NO trouble pulling it off. Needless to say Ive taken down AAs, tanks and APCs in a middle of a dogfight, with just a fraction of a secod of aligning. The more versatile you are, the better it is for you.

Haha ok Chris show me an unedited video of you bombing and hitting many undamaged moving tanks/APCs (even jeeps) from these altitudes and destroying them with a single bomb over the course of a full round and I'll admit defeat.

Whats the bid?

This is not about "one single only true" method as you so desperately want to make it out to be. In this argument in particular. This is about multiple methods in taking out any vehicle/target at any time.

As for me making a video. The bombing video I made, youve seen it right? I had to make it in a game with NO player (not even AI), with minimum settings and a 80% view distance, and I averaged 18 FPS.

The only way you'll hit tanks from those altitudes is if your name is Nostradomos. Because once you drop that bomb it's out of your control and thus if that tank decides to make a hard right or stop you're screwed.

Theres more to an attack than dropping a bomb. Unless I know I will hit a vehicle, I will not waste my bombs. This goes under "situational awareness". When a tank is attacking a flag, they are mostly stationary. Perfect target. no matter what altitude, just aslong as the bombs hit. If Im in F35B, Im almost always above 200-300 feet, why not take a drop from THAT altitude just to save time, rather than diving down and be painted with AA? Spotted for J10s? And whatever else?

The longer the time that the bomb spends in the air the less efficient and less accurate it will be.

No. Luckily DICE didnt create windage nor do bombs drift because they rotate. If you have a correct aprpoach, and you drop at correct moment (HUD target area), you got a bullzeye hit. Theres no argument there. Thats of course from the pilots part. If a target moves, tough luck. But the bombs themselves do not devate, and they fall in a 100% predictable manner, which is why these (to you) akward methods work just as well as traditional and simple methods.

Dropping low and hard with my modified form of "dive bombing" leaves less than half a second between the drop of the bomb and impact with the target.. AKA one dead tank guaranteed.

Let me make it clear to you. You do not have a "Modified" divebombing method. Every pilot who has skill enough to attack with at least some efficieny uses the same method. The difference is that they mostly do not use cannons. But the drop is at the same angle, same timing and certainly... same HUD positioning.

I could care less about piloting ego now as I rarely pilot nowadays regardless. Believe it or not I want inexperienced pilots to do well and I don't think they can do well if they start wasting bombs by dropping them on weak S2A posts from 400 feet up. In addition attempting to vehicles from 400 feet up isn't going to produce favorable results. My method battle tested, is the most effective, just about as safe and produces much more accuracy and thus is a much more effective use of the bombs payload. When I'm on the ground I want my pilots to destroy those two tanks ASAP and I don't want to watch them waste a payload by doing a high altitude drop and doing nothing but scorching the ground.

If you want new pilots to do well, then just leave it. This is about your pilot ego, you just dont see it. A good pilot knows more than one way of attacking their opponent. A newbie pilot, in order to be efficient, sooner or later discovers the most used bombing method, which is a semi-dive, with release on Nr2 position on my pic. Its that simple. This argument isnt about utilizing one and the same attack in every situation, even though you want it to be. This has become into an argument where the main theme is your intolerance towards bombing methods that you do not practice. So please... stop.

Did DICE recently create some ultra tank I'm not aware of? A single bomb plus a spattering of cannon kills every single vehicle in the game with room to spare. The advantage of not using both bombs on a tank is if you miss or fail to kill the target you get a second shot but for myself almost never missing a direct hit I have the second bomb free to drop on a flag or another armored vehicle should the opportunity arise. Less reload + more killing with the same payload = more effective pilot. Pretty simple concept really.

Actually, the faster you kill your targets = the better pilots you are. Which is the the ONLY ONE, the truest, the best and most important, the only viable concept*.





*see?