RED bug theory.

[Batausu]

I have an idea about how to reproduce the red bug.
I just need help in testing this idea (in 1.3 environment).
Here is what I think: it's possible that the red bug is caused when 2 other, not related bugs occur at the same time. That's why it's so hard to reproduce.
Please think about it, don't dismiss it too easily.
The first bug is obvious after you try this simple experiment: place a claymore in front of you and then drive a vehicle in the active area. Nothing happens, if FF is off for claymores. Now do it again and when the vehicle is in front of the claymore, jump out. Boom! The claymore explodes and there is no enemy near you (except the empty vehicle still in motion). If you exit the vehicle after it has stopped, again, nothing happens.
The empty moving vehicle is becoming 'red' not to me (I can see it's white -> empty), but to the closest object, which happens to be a claymore (or a mine).
So the first bug is this: when an empty vehicle is moving, it triggers a change in its status (red -> enemy) versus an object in its vicinity (but not to the ex-driver).
The second bug is about seats.
Do you remember that when a chopper pilot switch seats in the gunner position, AA can't get a lock on him? This is the second bug (still not fixed): without a driver, a vehicle 'seems' to be empty, even if there are people in other seats.
What happens if these two bugs get together?
Let's think at this scenario: I am a bystander and here comes a vehicle, carrying two men. The driver leaves the vehicle right next to me, before the other passenger has the chance to get out. Me, as a bystander, I see the vehicle as empty (because of the second bug). Now the first bug hits and the vehicle and (probably) its passenger have their stats changed as 'red', but only to me (because I'm the closest). The red bug happened to me a couple of times and I remember it was a vehicle involved somehow.
I suppose someone should be able to test this, with a couple of friends online.
Even if I'm wrong about the whole thing, fixing these 2 bugs is still worth it.
So do you think it's a plausible theory?
Thanks for reading so far…

[ichangedmyname]

Re: RED bug theory.

Confusing but no glaring mistakes! Good find??

[Consultant01]

Re: RED bug theory.

that actually makes a lot of sense. I wonder if its related. Great thinking.

[Radar-C}{G-]

Re: RED bug theory.

I have never personally had this happen, but what has happened to me to trigger the red tag bug is when I first load into a server and I start on one team and as soon as pick my spawn and load out, I mean a split second afterwards, the server automatically switches me to the other team. This is when I either load out on the other team with everyone, including friendlies, showing red and/or I am showing red to my team. This is the only time I have experienced it. But I would be willing to test it out your theory above to see what happens.

[DesertFalcon]

Re: RED bug theory.

i dont think thats it but good theory.

[Batausu]

Re: RED bug theory.

I feel like I have missed something about the first bug.
An empty moving vehicle is not enough, because many chopper pilots switch seats, the chopper is 'empty', but does not change into 'red'. I think it has something to do about being close to a mine or claymore. So if someone is going to test it, have this in mind.
I can't wait for results!

[Talus]

Re: RED bug theory.

You'd be better off testing it in the V1.4 B2 env't.

[Revere]

Re: RED bug theory.

I have an idea about how to reproduce the red bug.
I just need help in testing this idea (in 1.3 environment).
Here is what I think: it's possible that the red bug is caused when 2 other, not related bugs occur at the same time. That's why it's so hard to reproduce.
Please think about it, don't dismiss it too easily.
The first bug is obvious after you try this simple experiment: place a claymore in front of you and then drive a vehicle in the active area. Nothing happens, if FF is off for claymores. Now do it again and when the vehicle is in front of the claymore, jump out. Boom! The claymore explodes and there is no enemy near you (except the empty vehicle still in motion). If you exit the vehicle after it has stopped, again, nothing happens.
The empty moving vehicle is becoming 'red' not to me (I can see it's white -> empty), but to the closest object, which happens to be a claymore (or a mine).
So the first bug is this: when an empty vehicle is moving, it triggers a change in its status (red -> enemy) versus an object in its vicinity (but not to the ex-driver).
The second bug is about seats.
Do you remember that when a chopper pilot switch seats in the gunner position, AA can't get a lock on him? This is the second bug (still not fixed): without a driver, a vehicle 'seems' to be empty, even if there are people in other seats.
What happens if these two bugs get together?
Let's think at this scenario: I am a bystander and here comes a vehicle, carrying two men. The driver leaves the vehicle right next to me, before the other passenger has the chance to get out. Me, as a bystander, I see the vehicle as empty (because of the second bug). Now the first bug hits and the vehicle and (probably) its passenger have their stats changed as 'red', but only to me (because I'm the closest). The red bug happened to me a couple of times and I remember it was a vehicle involved somehow.
I suppose someone should be able to test this, with a couple of friends online.
Even if I'm wrong about the whole thing, fixing these 2 bugs is still worth it.
So do you think it's a plausible theory?
Thanks for reading so far…

i dont know aobvut that, but the red/blue glitches occur on servers that randomiz teams after each round. There is almost always 2 or 3 red/blue tag guys on those servers

[imported_Nefarious]

Re: RED bug theory.

I think thats a very plausible theory on how the bug gets created. Does that also have to do with the blue tag bug, where an enemy is seen as a friend and if u kill him its a tk? Anyway, I do believe theres something missing. The other day in SAK a new round started and as soon as I spawned a friendly had a red name. Some noob even started shooting him. He hadnt entered a vehicle or anything. That means it probably had something to do with him switching teams. Maybe theres 2 ways to cause it.

[Deadeye313]

Re: RED bug theory.

I think the "bug" with a vehicle isn't a bug.

I think it's just the check for the alliance of an object next to or over the mine only checks if the vehicle is piloted by a friendly. It doesn't check for an enemy exactly, it just says you're not a friendly so you get blown up. Thus, neutrals get blown up, too.

You are blown up by friendly mines if you're in a vehicle and get out while over it.

[JonnyMacFred102]

Re: RED bug theory.

The vehicle becomes neutral, not enemy, when you exit. All neutral vehicles will blow up since the game decided there is no teammate in it, so why not blow up like in real life.

You can test by putting a claymore in front of the chopper or plane before it spawns, and it will activate when it spawns first (neutral). But not if you set the claymore after it spawns (teammates may be in it).

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: RED bug theory.

Nah...

Red/blue tag

DEFINATELY has something to do with autobalance and teamswitching, and the times where you try to switch teams, but it like switches you back instantly.... etc.

[ichangedmyname]

Re: RED bug theory.

I agree about the randomizing teams...

[Batausu]

Re: RED bug theory.

After discussing with some guy on another forum (someone who really knows what he is talking about), I found out that in fact the 'first bug', as I called it, it's not a bug, it's a feature.
It has to do with how a mine (or a claymore) takes the decision to explode. It simply makes a check if the vehicle passing over it (or in front of it, for claymores) is having the same TEAM tag as the mine. If not, it explodes. An empty vehicle is not on the same team as a mine (it's on a team of its own, in fact, called 'empty team') and this is why an empty vehicle (and moving, as the mine needs to detect an on/off passing over it) will be destroyed no matter what team has originally placed the mine.
This is a feature, as I said, helping to clear the mines with fast vehicles (jumping at the last second to avoid the kill). It's a useful feature.
I agree with that, but I have no information about the second bug.
I don't think that switching seats in a vehicle (while the vehicle is considered empty) could be a feature.
I still have one unanswered question? How is the code treating the passengers in an 'empty' vehicle?
In the end, all this was a nice theory, but just a theory. Without proof, it doesn't mean anything.
Communication problems was my original theory, back in January, when I wrote my first post about the red bug. Back then I suggested this fix (what they are doing now in 1.4 -> checking the status of each player at a fixed rate). It seems they listened and finally made the necessary corrections.
This indeed is going to fix the red bug, but the communication problems are still there, causing other 'bugs' (like missing different events, due to packets loss).
I have said it then, I say it now: without a bulletproof net code, the bugs will still be here, manifesting like ordinary actions not being performed, or hits not being registered.
There is a way out of this mess: using TCP packets instead of UDP packets. The later are fast, but unreliable, while the first are very reliable, but are increasing the bandwidth needed for the game. Considering that most people have good internet connection, I think is preferable to raise the net requirements, then have unreliable communication.
I wouldn't mind having a 512 Kb/s bandwidth requirement instead of 256, as long as all packets reach their destination.

[ponton]

Re: RED bug theory.

i agree with metallicaguitrst, i've been redtagged for my team just after joining game