The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

[zhpkiller]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

While I think your article was well written, I think it was vastly exaggerated. The article made it seem like BF2 was completely unplayable, when it was far from that. Despite the bugs in BF2, it is a great, playable game that people easily put 400+ hours into.

The "community uproar", "people leaving battlefield" theories doesn't match the reality. BF2 continues to be one of the most popular and played games online, second only to CS. This hasn't changed for the past year. There are not "droves" of pissed off people leaving the battlefield series. The community as described is but a small percentage of the players out there, and hardly represent the perception of the general BF2 population.

Like you, I feel BF2 can be better. But it's not as bad as you described. I'm still having nights of fun on BF2 a year after buying it.

[Radar-C}{G-]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

Thanks for your feedback, both the positive and the negative. Since originally writing this piece, I have learned that there are few mistakes which many of you have pointed out. I want address a few of the misconceptions that have been posted about me and my stance in response to my post and touch more diligently about the fears that I have with the future of BF2.

First and foremost I am a fan of the Battlefield series. I have played the series since BF42, before the first patch and continue to play BF2 and SF to this day. I am a fan of BF2. I love the game for many reasons including the teamwork, the rank system, the versatility and the dynamics of the game. I will continue playing BF2 until there are no servers left, and will probably continue playing against bots after that.

As a shameful side note, I still play BFV and BF42, RTR, FH and DC. Each game, and mod for that matter, is different. The game play for each is different. The physics for each are different. The strategies for each are different. I like having the variety which is why I keep them all installed and ready for a game at a moments notice.

Now a few of you have accused me of various things, but the one I want to address is the accusation that I know nothing of general software development. I am an Information Architect that develops enterprise level software solutions day after day. I use the project road map mentioned in the planning and development phase of any given project. More importantly I communicate up front with the customer/end user what that road map is, why it is and the time lines for delivering these "enhancements/features" included in the road map.

EA, if they are following a road map, has failed completely to communicate it to the end users. This makes their "new features" seem more like an attempt to sedate the masses, who are unhappy with their product, until they can figure what is actually wrong with their product. If I were to release patches, beta or otherwise, to the products I have developed that were anywhere near the quality, or lack there of, of the 1.3 patch I would be collecting unemployment and playing more BF2 (not such a bad idea).

Another thing I do not do is sell a product to a customer that is not complete. Known issues are always fixed before the product is released and money exchanges hands. I also never work on the next stage of development before all of the newly discovered bugs are fixed. This is a best practice in the software development industry, but seems to be lacking the game development industry, this includes EA, Valve, UBISoft, Blizzard and others.

I will offer up the admittance that there is no way to release a bug free application. In many cases when a developer beta tests his or her own software they know the logic of how it should work and have a hard time stepping out of that logic when testing, so everything may seem fine. This is until the product gets in the user's hands. This is why companies like Microsoft have beta programs for products like IE 7, Windows Vista, Windows Defender and just about any other product. They provide the software for free to allow real-world testing and bug reporting before making consumers pay for it. This is what the gaming industry should be doing. One question I have is how can one sector of the gaming industry get it right the first time (console games, they can't be patched and more times than not work out of the box) but the other sector of the industry (PC games) struggles to get right after the third, fourth or fifth try. Sure there are hardware variations in the PC platform that are limited in the console platform (Nintendo, Sega, Sony), but these variations are handled by standards that 95% of the hardware manufacturers comply with. Could it be because the console industry performs beta testing in the form of focus groups? Maybe, but I don't work in that industry and don't know. But the console industry does something that the PC industry doesn't.

As for the response about bugs, "the only bug I can't understand EA/Dice not fixing quickly is the crashing introduced by 1.3", I have this to say: BF2 has had issues since it's release with the "Red Tag Bug" in which gamers, like yourself, are TK'd because the guy TKing you sees the red enemy tag over your head. This makes the game more frustrating for you when you are being killed by your own friendlies and makes the game miserable for the other guys because he gets punished, maybe not by you because you are such a wonderful and empathetic human being, but by others for the TK and will eventually get kicked from the server for it. That is only one of many bugs that should been fixed before any new content was added to the game regardless of the road map.

EA has burnt many bridges with third party developers since BF42. These developers include not only mod developers but admin tool developers. They have shut these individuals out with nearly each and every patch. Each time EA released a patch they failed to work with the developers and the patches always broke the mods and admin tools. This was not limited to BF42, but included BFV 1.1 and 1.2 patch and BF2. The impact on the community was direct and critical. For nearly a week after each patch, gamers had to wait for a new patch of their favorite mod to be released to fix the break. Server admins also had to wait for the next release of their admin tool, meaning managing smacktards was taken back to the stone age of command line entries to kick and ban players acting unruly in the servers.

With the way EA handled BFV and the community by dropping all support and future development for the next best thing (BF2), EA the following clear and blatant message to the community; "We will work on improving our products until the next thing comes along." How was the community supposed to react to announcement of BF2142? Were they supposed to jump up and down with joy while getting their wallets out and at the ready? I say no. And for those of you who think EA will do it differently in the future Iaks this: What happens to BF2142 when BF3 begins development for release in a year and a half? Will they continue to support BF2142, fixed or not? Based on their actions with BFV I would say no and if they repeat the BFV to BF2 action with BF2 to BF2142 I would then assume the worse.

The people some of you are heckling for having several hundreds of hours of game time in and yet they still complain have every right to complain. That time was an investment which was supposed to pay dividends in the form of unlocks, preference for the commander position and such. They did not log hundreds of hours in the game playing on the 1.3, 1.4 beta 1 or 1.4 beta 2 patches. They logged these hours in playing the first release, 1.1 and 1.2 patches, because the game was/is fun and because there was promise of the issues being fixed. Since logging their first hour of game time, the game has only gotten worse and for many, who suffer from CTDs more often than others, the game is completely unplayable. I congratulate them for making their voice heard.

In the end, all I am trying to say is that these mistakes by EA are slowly killing one of the most powerful gaming franchises in history. BF2 still has years of life left in it and it may surpass the lifecycle of Bf42, but only if EA fixes the issues the community has reported and they begin working closely with the third party developers. Then and only then will BF2 continue to rise to the top like BF42 did and until that happens BF2142 is nothing more than a glorified mod in my opinion. I know... I know.. opinions are like armpits.... everyone has a couple and they usually stink.

Thanks again.

Radar

[Donkey]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

^^^^^^^^^^ Right on brother

[imported_[C*]Indest]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

Nice write up.

This is not posted towards the author, but to the people that complain about the issues in bf2 day in day out.

Some of us would know how it all works in the corperate world. Its not up to the programmers to fix certain sections of the game etc. Its all coming down from management. If managemnt decide not to waste their staff's time fixing bugs and rather work on new release of another game etc, then thats whats going to happen.

We can jump up and down all we want but its not going to happen - why cant people realise this after many times of dissapointment. Yet we still complain.

Watch the news, you see millions and millions of people perform rallies (not just post messages on forum from their comfort of their homes) to stop war and appose some of the actions brought forward by their country to no avail, you think your little post is going to make A multi billion dollar company change their plan and the directions their heading?

People, its just a game, why do you guys get so worked up about - i just dont understand - Move on - call your friends out, go watch a movie - do something else rather than spending hundreds of hours infront of a pc and then you will relealise the insignificance of these issues that you currently think is life threatining.

Life is short, Go out and live it! :)

[Radar-C}{G-]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

While I think your article was well written, I think it was vastly exaggerated.... The "community uproar", "people leaving battlefield" theories doesn't match the reality. BF2 continues to be one of the most popular and played games online, second only to CS... There are not "droves" of pissed off people leaving the battlefield series.

Like you, I feel BF2 can be better. But it's not as bad as you described. I'm still having nights of fun on BF2 a year after buying it.

I must say that I disagree with you whole-heartedly about the people leaving. My gaming community refuses to play BF2. We even refused to renew our lease of our ranked server as a direct result of the 1.3 crashes and CTD issues. While we could put up with the other bugs, we refused to pay money for a solution that did not work more times than not.

We still host our own unranked server. Our members will not even think about loading into it knowing that as as soon as the game starts to get intersting the server will crash and won't repopulate for quite some time as a result, because it is an unranked server. Many of our members aren't even interested in getting our server back up once EA fixes the CTD and server crashes simply because EA proved that they are unreliable in delivering a consistently stable gaming environment that they require ranked servers to keep patched to remain ranked.

In speaking with the host provider for our ranked BF2 server, he stated that a majority of his BF2 customers were doing the same thing for the exact same reasons. He expressed his concerns about even wanting to host EA games online any longer because of the negative impact this was having on his business.

I also know for a fact the several other gaming communities, similar to ours, already have or are getting ready to pull the plug on their ranked servers as well and their members are moving on to a more stable platforms.

This is why I disagree with you on that topic. Sure it may be a small population of the community now, but if this trend continues the minority will someday become the majority.

Like you, I too am still having fun with BF2. I haven't given up hope. I try to play a couple of nights a week, but alas after a CTD or two, combined with the insane load times for maps, I usually end up retiring early from gaming, before I get frustrated, and move on to more interesting things, like writing the original article I posted here.

Thanks for your feedback.

Radar

[GSG9xSNIPER]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

I must say that I disagree with you whole-heartedly about the people leaving. My gaming community refuses to play BF2. We even refused to renew our lease of our ranked server as a direct result of the 1.3 crashes and CTD issues. While we could put up with the other bugs, we refused to pay money for a solution that did not work more times than not.

We still host our own unranked server. Our members will not even think about loading into it knowing that as as soon as the game starts to get intersting the server will crash and won't repopulate for quite some time as a result, because it is an unranked server. Many of our members aren't even interested in getting our server back up once EA fixes the CTD and server crashes simply because EA proved that they are unreliable in delivering a consistently stable gaming environment that they require ranked servers to keep patched to remain ranked.

In speaking with the host provider for our ranked BF2 server, he stated that a majority of his BF2 customers were doing the same thing for the exact same reasons. He expressed his concerns about even wanting to host EA games online any longer because of the negative impact this was having on his business.

I also know for a fact the several other gaming communities, similar to ours, already have or are getting ready to pull the plug on their ranked servers as well and their members are moving on to a more stable platforms.

This is why I disagree with you on that topic. Sure it may be a small population of the community now, but if this trend continues the minority will someday become the majority.

Like you, I too am still having fun with BF2. I haven't given up hope. I try to play a couple of nights a week, but alas after a CTD or two, combined with the insane load times for maps, I usually end up retiring early from gaming, before I get frustrated, and move on to more interesting things, like writing the original article I posted here.

Thanks for your feedback.

Radar

I wonder what other server admins/owners think about this NON CUSTOMER SUPPORT. I feel the people who run clan matches/tournaments are throwing in the towel also.

[Cap`N Hagen]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

Besides, EA made the move to let YOU test 1.4, so get off your lazy butt and do it. It seems to me at least they are moving in the right direction and listening to some of your feedback.

While I appreciate the brave souls who have downloaded and "tested" this new patch, I myself will wait until I hear the coast is clear before downloading any more patches from "THEM".

Thanks to those who have.

[MatangkadHope]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

Thanks for your feedback, both the positive and the negative. Since originally writing this piece, I have learned that there are few mistakes which many of you have pointed out. I want address a few of the misconceptions that have been posted about me and my stance in response to my post and touch more diligently about the fears that I have with the future of BF2.

First and foremost I am a fan of the Battlefield series. I have played the series since BF42, before the first patch and continue to play BF2 and SF to this day. I am a fan of BF2. I love the game for many reasons including the teamwork, the rank system, the versatility and the dynamics of the game. I will continue playing BF2 until there are no servers left, and will probably continue playing against bots after that.

As a shameful side note, I still play BFV and BF42, RTR, FH and DC. Each game, and mod for that matter, is different. The game play for each is different. The physics for each are different. The strategies for each are different. I like having the variety which is why I keep them all installed and ready for a game at a moments notice.

Now a few of you have accused me of various things, but the one I want to address is the accusation that I know nothing of general software development. I am an Information Architect that develops enterprise level software solutions day after day. I use the project road map mentioned in the planning and development phase of any given project. More importantly I communicate up front with the customer/end user what that road map is, why it is and the time lines for delivering these "enhancements/features" included in the road map.

EA, if they are following a road map, has failed completely to communicate it to the end users. This makes their "new features" seem more like an attempt to sedate the masses, who are unhappy with their product, until they can figure what is actually wrong with their product. If I were to release patches, beta or otherwise, to the products I have developed that were anywhere near the quality, or lack there of, of the 1.3 patch I would be collecting unemployment and playing more BF2 (not such a bad idea).

Another thing I do not do is sell a product to a customer that is not complete. Known issues are always fixed before the product is released and money exchanges hands. I also never work on the next stage of development before all of the newly discovered bugs are fixed. This is a best practice in the software development industry, but seems to be lacking the game development industry, this includes EA, Valve, UBISoft, Blizzard and others.

I will offer up the admittance that there is no way to release a bug free application. In many cases when a developer beta tests his or her own software they know the logic of how it should work and have a hard time stepping out of that logic when testing, so everything may seem fine. This is until the product gets in the user's hands. This is why companies like Microsoft have beta programs for products like IE 7, Windows Vista, Windows Defender and just about any other product. They provide the software for free to allow real-world testing and bug reporting before making consumers pay for it. This is what the gaming industry should be doing. One question I have is how can one sector of the gaming industry get it right the first time (console games, they can't be patched and more times than not work out of the box) but the other sector of the industry (PC games) struggles to get right after the third, fourth or fifth try. Sure there are hardware variations in the PC platform that are limited in the console platform (Nintendo, Sega, Sony), but these variations are handled by standards that 95% of the hardware manufacturers comply with. Could it be because the console industry performs beta testing in the form of focus groups? Maybe, but I don't work in that industry and don't know. But the console industry does something that the PC industry doesn't.

As for the response about bugs, "the only bug I can't understand EA/Dice not fixing quickly is the crashing introduced by 1.3", I have this to say: BF2 has had issues since it's release with the "Red Tag Bug" in which gamers, like yourself, are TK'd because the guy TKing you sees the red enemy tag over your head. This makes the game more frustrating for you when you are being killed by your own friendlies and makes the game miserable for the other guys because he gets punished, maybe not by you because you are such a wonderful and empathetic human being, but by others for the TK and will eventually get kicked from the server for it. That is only one of many bugs that should been fixed before any new content was added to the game regardless of the road map.

EA has burnt many bridges with third party developers since BF42. These developers include not only mod developers but admin tool developers. They have shut these individuals out with nearly each and every patch. Each time EA released a patch they failed to work with the developers and the patches always broke the mods and admin tools. This was not limited to BF42, but included BFV 1.1 and 1.2 patch and BF2. The impact on the community was direct and critical. For nearly a week after each patch, gamers had to wait for a new patch of their favorite mod to be released to fix the break. Server admins also had to wait for the next release of their admin tool, meaning managing smacktards was taken back to the stone age of command line entries to kick and ban players acting unruly in the servers.

With the way EA handled BFV and the community by dropping all support and future development for the next best thing (BF2), EA the following clear and blatant message to the community; "We will work on improving our products until the next thing comes along." How was the community supposed to react to announcement of BF2142? Were they supposed to jump up and down with joy while getting their wallets out and at the ready? I say no. And for those of you who think EA will do it differently in the future Iaks this: What happens to BF2142 when BF3 begins development for release in a year and a half? Will they continue to support BF2142, fixed or not? Based on their actions with BFV I would say no and if they repeat the BFV to BF2 action with BF2 to BF2142 I would then assume the worse.

The people some of you are heckling for having several hundreds of hours of game time in and yet they still complain have every right to complain. That time was an investment which was supposed to pay dividends in the form of unlocks, preference for the commander position and such. They did not log hundreds of hours in the game playing on the 1.3, 1.4 beta 1 or 1.4 beta 2 patches. They logged these hours in playing the first release, 1.1 and 1.2 patches, because the game was/is fun and because there was promise of the issues being fixed. Since logging their first hour of game time, the game has only gotten worse and for many, who suffer from CTDs more often than others, the game is completely unplayable. I congratulate them for making their voice heard.

In the end, all I am trying to say is that these mistakes by EA are slowly killing one of the most powerful gaming franchises in history. BF2 still has years of life left in it and it may surpass the lifecycle of Bf42, but only if EA fixes the issues the community has reported and they begin working closely with the third party developers. Then and only then will BF2 continue to rise to the top like BF42 did and until that happens BF2142 is nothing more than a glorified mod in my opinion. I know... I know.. opinions are like armpits.... everyone has a couple and they usually stink.

Thanks again.

Radar

One Of The Most Advanced Second Post In The Same Thread I've Ever Had The Fortune To See. Please Continue Composing These Very Well Thought Out Posts. I Believe That
You Are A Very Dedicated Composer Of Forum Posts. I Would Also Like To Honorably Mention That I Am A Fan Of BF2 As Well So Your Not Alone. Again, Best Regards To You And Your Family And Your Aquantences. Please Be Sure To Post I Can't Wait To See More. I Am Your Fan So You Will Be Watched By Me At All Times Regarding Posts. If You Have Any Further Questions Feel Free To PM(Private Message) Me At Will.

[jodoanyore]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

Very good history of BF series. I jumped into it with BF2, so I didn't know what happened before.

I really like BF2. I have tryed Doom 3, Prey, FEAR, GRAW and some others demos and I have to say no one gave me more entertaintment than BF2.

- About patches, I hate 1.3 as most everybody does. But you have to take a look to other games. Pitifully the patches are now a must in almost every game. And with the new consoles comming with HD, this only could be worst.
- About mods: There is no one serious mod now. And the main reason is Rank. And like it or not, this is a bussiness so EA has to see how to earn the more money with their investment. Thats the way the world works everywhere.
- About QW:ET, after the reviews it has in E3 I was waiting for the game, but now I'm afraid it will be a Vaporware.
- And finally about BF2142, I don't expect too much. I just hope it will improve team work, balance and to have much more less BUGS and patches than BF2. If it's so, I 'm going to buy it for sure.
- One only request... to have a ranked server here in Chile.

[KristianSax]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

Adapt, improvise, overcome - said Clint Eastwood :)

I sometimes strongly feel that the ranting about the problems in BF2 is exaggerated.
Red nametag - I've seen it most probably five or six times, maybe a few more ... I've TK-d them a couple of times ... not a major problem actually for me.
CTD - Had two a week ago, restarted and they went away. I can't recall any from earlier times ... maybe there were a few.
Crashing servers - Haven't seen any going offline just like that ... sometimes there is a restart but that is not that annoying (or is that the infamous crash?).
Clips not working - umm jammed clips occur in real life also. You say not that often, well in real war you don't engage in combat that frequently either.
Major lag introduced by 1.3 - haven't seen any increase actually.
Sniper scope glitch - OK, that one i have.

For me (as i noted earlier) BF2 is not unplayable, very far from it. In the community I know there aren't any who have quit because of the patches ... of course many have rambled about it and threatened to quit. The only reasons for putting the game on the shelf or selling it have been: HW problems, army duty, connection problems (the connection at home) or because one has had enough of the game.

I agree that if a small share of the community wants to be activists and fight against BF2142, EA will not even blink an eye because of that.

If the bugs and glitches bother you (anyone) that much then why don't you just pack and leave? If you are so convinced that EA/DICE will not do didly about them, then why are you roaming the BF2 forums like lost souls and haunting everyone else about it?

[Consultant01]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

I must be one of the lucky ones too because I've been a victim of the red-tag bug exactly 3 times and I havent been on a server that crashed in 2 months...

I think the problems are widely known but infrequently experienced for the majority of players. I admit that I could be wrong, however, but I suspect that most peoples playing experience mirrors my own.

I think BF2 was getting stale for a lot of people and a shady patch is a good excuse to get out.

[gh0st]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

LMAO!

Who really wrote this??

I've seen this pop up on many bf2 sites/forums and they all end with someone else's name. Like if I wrote it, at the end it would say By gh0st or something to that effect.

I'm just curious cause it's starting to be kinda like spam lmao.

If the OP did write this then good post, however, if you didn't, please let us know who did.

[imported_VISTREL]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

T
Battlefield 1942, BF42, was the first of its kind. A first person shooter (FPS) that allowed the player to not only run around shooting people, but allowed them to use just about anything in the game. From a tank, a ship, a sub, a jeep, anti-aircraft stations, mines, dynamite to an airplane the possibilities were limited only to a few simple rules:

It wasn't first. The first was Operation Flashpoint. And BF42 was an arcade clone of OFP.

[Radar-C}{G-]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

LMAO!

Who really wrote this??

I've seen this pop up on many bf2 sites/forums and they all end with someone else's name. Like if I wrote it, at the end it would say By gh0st or something to that effect.

I'm just curious cause it's starting to be kinda like spam lmao.

If the OP did write this then good post, however, if you didn't, please let us know who did.

To answer you questions, yes I did write this. I have posted it in other forums as well to spread the word because as great as this, TotalBF2 community is, many people still don't know about it or frequent it enough.

http://www.forumplanet.com/planetbat...19&tid=1931238

http://forums.easports.com/mboards/thread.jspa?threadID=99503&tstart=15

http://forum.eagames.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=27558

It was posted here as well and where I originally posted it... www.chicagoshardcoregamers.com.

And to let you know... all of the posts that I have made in are signed with Radar-C}{G-, which happens to be the name used for my account here. If you are seeing any other posts in other forums with this content and missing my signature please post up some links so that I can address this?

Thanks,

Radar

[Teh_Spambot]

Re: The Death of a Legacy - Battlefield 1942 - Battlefield 2142

I agree with everything he says about BF1942, namely that it was great, far better than vietnam, or any non battlefield game.

BFV in my opinion was entirely superceded by BF2: BF2 has all of the advantages and more than BFV, but less disadvantages.

BF2142 is pure garbage. I had considered it for a moment to get the first strike mod, but consider it no more.

Buying 2142 would send the wrong message to EA, and so I shall not buy 2142, and the type of people who have indicated they would like 2142 are not the type I wish to play with anyway: all the better, as I can play BF2 without them.

I believe that the problems with BF2 are 50 percent the fault of the community, and 50 percent DICE/ EA.

Dice allowed people to dolphin dive, but only true losers did, of which there are thousands.

Dice allowed people to stat pad, act like idiots and do everything in their power to gain rank, and people rose to the occasion magnificently.

I think that BF2 will eventually become just as great a game as BF1942, as the great mods like Forgotten hope 2, bfpirates, etc come out.

Also, the counterstrike playing, hacking, stat padding losers will find themselves new games to play, like 2142. The avalanche of useless, never downloaded mini mods will also halt i hope. As will the mini mods pretending to be total conversions, such as un intervention, peacekeeper, yada yada. We never had 500 WWII mods for 1942 that pretended to be total conversions and took more than a year to make.

Thus it will be 1942 players, and mod enthusiasts like myself who play BF2 on, into the days when most of the bugs have been worked out.