Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

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  • Chris_Redfield
    Member
    • Oct 2006
    • 5986

    #1

    Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

    Im having an awesome time modding the F35B and other jets, although in demo only. Im going to reinstall the full game later again this week to play around with J10 aswell. For example, upped damage for MG has already made F35B into A-10 :laugh: . Apart from characteristic changes, which actually made F35B superior to J10, which was apparent since it felt like F35B turned on the knife edge :laugh: . Upped power on the engine pushed F35B one step closer to helos. :laugh: , Rate of fire of missiles made F35B shoot them like little FFARs.:laugh: . I could go on. Thing is, Im dumb, inexperienced and uneducated in this area and lack of technical English isnt helping either, but at least now I know Im on the right path. The fact that F35B has TONS of data compared to MiG for example isnt helping either. All I know is, Im going to create a balanced air-to-air system the first thing I get the full installed and rolling, just to see how (if) it can be done and then test it on LAN over hamachi with some buddies. Already 3 of them picked up and said they will help me out. Now I know from Metallicas "report" that missiles work well in Hamachi and not so well over the net, but missiles wil not be my main concern. Im going to work on the handling mostly. And no, this will not be a "mod", but an experiment.

    Anyway, helo guys will love this- LONGER LOCK TIME will save your butts. I decreased the lock range, lock angle by 50%, increased lock time to 2 seconds and my god, I couldnt even lock on to the oil tower at Oman properly. This was a rather drastic change, but th fact remains, with A) Higher lock time B) Smaller lock circle and C)Shorter lock on distance helos survivability against jets missiles are increased SIGNIFICANTLY. Cannons still stay, but I hope DICE will increase choppers armor against that.

    So what does it mean? It means that missile threat from above against choppers, from jets will be reduced significantly. Jets will have to slow down a lto to get a tone. And if they slow down, they become a target for ground AA, or other jets.

    My hands are tied and its very limited mostly due to not having the retail version right now, and playing around the Demo limited stuff. As soon as I can experiment with the 1.3 patch, on retail Im going to try cutting down the speed on the missiles, and tweaking other stuff, on jets included. I remember doing this months ago, but that was boring back then because I couldnt understand any of this jibberish. Now that I created a dogfighting monster out of F35B in just changing a few numbers, Im having so much fun (although retarded fun:laugh: )

    Anyway, the biggest thing I discovered is the helo helping thing. This thread also servers as a little request thread. Im having a hard time "decoding" the sh!t in the files to understand them and right now Im limited to only having the Demo installed, but if theres something you want to try out, shout out.
  • $kelet0r

    #2
    Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

    won't that reduce dogfights to mg only though?
    how boring :O
    why have missiles at all?

    Comment

    • Chris_Redfield
      Member
      • Oct 2006
      • 5986

      #3
      Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

      Originally posted by $kelet0r
      won't that reduce dogfights to mg only though?
      how boring :O
      why have missiles at all?
      NO NO! Thats the beauty of this! You see, the distance between the jets in dogfight is mostly static, while when a jet has to approach the chopper from BEHIND if they want to have a lock on the chopper. Otherwise they will pass way too quickly and the lock will be created just as jet passes the chopper! In static distance, in dogfights, you close in to the terminal distance for the lock to be created (its not too close), wait 2 seconds, lock is created, shoot off the missiles and its done.

      Against choppers, you have to get to the terminal distance, and THEN wait 2 seconds for the lock-on, which is why the full lock is created right as the jet is passing the chopper. If the chopper turns towards the plane, the lock will NEVER be created unless they slow down significantly... If they do... theres plenty of static AA around.

      2 second time to create a lock in dogfights, provided that the missiles will hit ~100% AND jets are balanced maneuverability wise (balanced, not equal), is a good deal?! You have 2 seconds to break the lock, if you dont have flares, youre fvcked.

      Comment

      • $kelet0r

        #4
        Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

        do you plan on making the missiles more lethal then> 1 or 2 to kill?
        because if I pull hard up and flip to port or starboard over and over, you will never see a missile fired once
        i hope you make this a download - i'd like to check it out when you are done

        2 second time to create a lock in dogfights, provided that the missiles will hit ~100% AND jets are balanced maneuverability wise (balanced, not equal), is a good deal?! You have 2 seconds to break the lock, if you dont have flares, youre fvcked.
        sounds like 1.2 AA to me which I loved (all I wanted to see was the path finding fixed and the flares function as intended) and I'm sure you hated. Is that the path you are going?

        Comment

        • Chris_Redfield
          Member
          • Oct 2006
          • 5986

          #5
          Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

          Originally posted by $kelet0r
          do you plan on making the missiles more lethal then> 1 or 2 to kill?
          because if I pull hard up and flip to port or starboard over and over, you will never see a missile fired once
          i hope you make this a download - i'd like to check it out when you are done
          I dont need to. Im just messing around with the Demo. Im going to work more with 1.3. Missiles there are already lethal enough. However, I do actually want to try 1.2 missiles since those worked the best.

          *2 second lock time
          *balance in maneuverability the way I vision it (I will also try to totally equalize them, for the kicks of it, but its going to be pisshard, since F35B is totally different, its like a hybrid of a chopper and a jet, in BF2 technicality terms)
          *shorter lock on range (not as drastic as 50%, but I guess this comes out in experments)
          *smaller lock on circle for MORE MANEUVERABLE JETS, bigger lock on circle for LESS MANEUVERABLE JETS (Basically, the angle at which a lock can be created, small or wide)
          *decrease in missile speed
          *decrease in missile lifetime

          *trying to find out if theres a possibility to implement missile tick lag (reaction time)
          *implementing a "cannon grouping", which will hopefully screw up the possibility to snipe static AA from long distances, risk is that its easier to hit infantry, who are wide out in the open.
          *implementing a system where you have 5 sets of flares (one flare per set) and you can shoot them any time you want. Flare reload time is 28 seconds by default so Im going to have to work on that to balance it out.

          Optional wacky idea- creating a jet cannon- LOW ROF, HIGH damage for a jet. See how it turns out.

          I wouldnt be doing this if I didnt feel like I was on the right path. When I hit a stalemate Ill probably get pissed, bored and drop the project.

          Originally posted by $kelet0r
          sounds like 1.2 AA to me which I loved (all I wanted to see was the path finding fixed and the flares function as intended) and I'm sure you hated. Is that the path you are going?
          Well, the dream for me would be this rule-

          "multiple maneuvers to ditch missiles" which I believe can be done if you implement a short lag between the missile tracking you, and actually starting to move. As you know, or dont, missiles have a tracking intervals, measured in milliseconds, where they check for the targets location and correct course.

          However, Im not that good at modding, Im just lucky and I believe I know a little English :p , so Im going to go for the next best thing. Lock-on war in maneuverability, rather than positioning like it was in 1.2. That means, 2 seconds lock time in closer range will create a maneuver war, but now more fatal if the lock will be aquired. In result, yes, looks like 1.2, however, I imagine it to be a hybrid between what looked like a cannon war in pre-1.2 (positioning war) with fatality of 1.2 in case you lose that maneuverability fight. I hope you understand what Im trying to say.


          As for it being downloadable. I dont think so. Its just an experiment, and hell, who knows if I will finish it. I swear Ill try :laugh:

          Comment

          • $kelet0r

            #6
            Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

            best of luck buddy :)
            keep us informed of your experiments

            Comment

            • zipp0r

              #7
              Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

              remember the bombers which are easy to shoot down now, will be even easier to shoot down if you mess with too much stuff.

              Comment

              • Chris_Redfield
                Member
                • Oct 2006
                • 5986

                #8
                Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

                UPDATE #1

                Changes

                *Flares shot out semi-auto. 5 flares total, reloading time total of 30 seconds.
                *2 missiles, reload time between missile shots, missiles have great turn capability but do not go "crazy".
                *Jet cannon, with a ROF of 255 RPM, damage increased to match "damage per second" with normal jet cannons. from 100 damage to 266 damage. Using LAV sound, awesome little toy.
                *Missile lock range reduced from 375 to 250, combined with 1.5 seconds (for F35B) and 2 seconds (for MiG), gives the jet only a moment of reaction time to fire at a chopper, and missile will most likely miss, UNLESS the jet slows down, or approaches from behind the chopper.
                *Working on missile maneuverability balance, plus lock time, lock tick, trace lag and speed balance.
                *I have yet to work on maneuverability, mainly because its pisshard to get it perfect. Its always either too much or too little.

                Videos available in Youtube later today

                Note, its all done in the Demo. I cant wait to apply this to retail version, and show some stuff in OCS SP, or in 64 player map SP mod against J10.

                Youtube video

                Forgive me for the low quality, so you might have to focus quite a bit. problem is, that Im running a low-end system. As you can see there are quite a few tweaks. First, my favourite is the cannon for the jet, which is a fun little toy. But perhaps the most important, that you would like is the semi-auto flare system. You have 5 flares, shoot them whenever and however you want. I also tweaked F35B handling a bit to give a slight boost to the turn radius, aswell as a 15 second afterburner timer. I also like the missile system, they suposedly hit dead-on (onless the jet is at an extreme angle) with a solid lock, thing is, you have to wait a bit before the next shot.

                Comment

                • $kelet0r

                  #9
                  Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

                  lol at the end :)
                  i like the fire a missile - reload idea

                  Comment

                  • Roger Smith
                    Member
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 1390

                    #10
                    Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

                    Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
                    upped damage for MG has already made F35B into A-10 :laugh: .
                    the armored fury a10 is freaking ridiculous. its nothing like its real life varient, especially its weak cannon.

                    Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
                    missiles wil not be my main concern. Im going to work on the handling mostly.
                    the plane handling in bf2 is not a problem, although it would be fun and could be better, changing handling characteristics will not fix any of the AA/flare problems that plauge jet combat.

                    Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
                    helo guys will love this- LONGER LOCK TIME will save your butts. I decreased the lock range, lock angle by 50%
                    you mean noob helo guys will love it. as is, a good helo pilot can maybe survive the cannon. aa missiles arent a problem for good helo pilots. honestly helicopters are pretty much perfect in bf2 aside from the tvgm blowing up before it hits anything. the armor is fine, anything that can really hurt it cant hurt it easily unless the helo pilot lets them! fix the pilots not the helicopters!

                    Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
                    missile threat from above against choppers, from jets will be reduced significantly
                    at least as far as your original post is concerned, most good jet pilots wont even attempt to aa helis, cannon downs um much better. radar would help the jet situation alot!

                    Comment

                    • Sloi sauce

                      #11
                      Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

                      I like the idea. Then again, I'm horribly biased ... :laugh:

                      Comment

                      • Chris_Redfield
                        Member
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 5986

                        #12
                        Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

                        Originally posted by roger smith
                        the armored fury a10 is freaking ridiculous. its nothing like its real life varient, especially its weak cannon.
                        Havent played AF yet, but Id have to assume that whatever they did with A-10 there, is for the sake of gameplay balance. I was just comparing my sad little cannon to it because Im proud of it :p . I was mostly influenced by Ace Combat 3, a jet arcade where armament was optional, so they had a Vulcan, a bigger MG and an aerial cannon. I think a variety in weaponry would be cool, the only issue is the perfect balance between them in DPS (damage per second).

                        the plane handling in bf2 is not a problem, although it would be fun and could be better, changing handling characteristics will not fix any of the AA/flare problems that plauge jet combat.
                        I disagree. For me, handling "balance" in BF2 is a huge problem. Not because they are drastically different, but because the strenghts and weaknesses arent that apparent and do not make the difference, which they should.

                        "Different" right now stands for "better", which it shouldnt.

                        you mean noob helo guys will love it. as is, a good helo pilot can maybe survive the cannon. aa missiles arent a problem for good helo pilots. honestly helicopters are pretty much perfect in bf2 aside from the tvgm blowing up before it hits anything. the armor is fine, anything that can really hurt it cant hurt it easily unless the helo pilot lets them! fix the pilots not the helicopters!
                        I have this crooked idea that helos have a hard time getting fooked from the ground anyway. Making them have less threats from above, even if it means reducing newbies missile use against them, its still something good. Time to focus more on skills, which is exactly what cannons represent. Having said that, Ive only been shot at by only cannons by good pilots, the worse side of pilot club in BF2 is a mass of newbies. Otherwise, I dont have a problem with current situation either, although I would like armor to be boosted on helos, a bit.

                        at least as far as your original post is concerned, most good jet pilots wont even attempt to aa helis, cannon downs um much better. radar would help the jet situation alot!
                        Naw man, spotting is the key. Thank god for imbecils who dont know the Q key, eh?

                        Anyway, reduced lock range, lock circle (but good hitting missiles), from this, EVERYONE benefits, except for newbies. Dogfighters, chopper whores (Sloi LOL), whats there not to like?! Besides, with jets slowing down, youll see more TVGM against jets, which means more luving for choppers :laugh: . Personally, the MOST interesting thing for me was creating the jet cannon and semi-auto flares. With improved missiles, defense hasnt improved. And an optional ditching for flares would be a great way to prolongue dogfights.

                        Comment

                        • XmetallicaXguitarstX
                          Member
                          • Jul 2006
                          • 3014

                          #13
                          Re: Having fun modding F35B (jets s chopper situation fix discovered)

                          *thinks of the damage I can do with those bombs/cannons*



                          Yeah.... damn that should be in 1.4!

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