The question that needs asked...

[Eternal-Souljah]

Re: The question that needs asked...

^ What Sacramento said is true, alot of people wouldn't go the other armies, maybe because they don't like the different language sounds (if they don't know they can have English VO) or you get ''patriotic'' people etc.

I think the J10 is very fun to fly, let me just tell you before you flame, that on Wake, I don't rape the carrier, not even if USMC have flags, its unneeded, I see so many people do it, I don't because if I was USMC I wouldn't like it. And I say again The J10 is fun to fly. On other maps most of my kills in Jets are from taking out other Jets, especially on FuShe. On Wake I usually get the J10 and tear into the carrier, I will just hit the island and thats about as far as I go.

Also on what Sacramento said, this is true. I let one F35 let off his flares I was right on him, locked dead on I fire missiles, hes not turning by the way, and they fly down or up or past him as if im not even locked on. The J10 has some dodgy missiles at times, I know it can hit pretty well, but sometimes they just don't want to work for you, so you just take the F35 down with the cannon.

[Roger Smith]

Re: The question that needs asked...

agreed sarcasmo and eternal solja

[The Soup Nazi]

Re: The question that needs asked...

Isn't the F-35 (in real life) supposed to be the most advanced and deadly aircraft created thus far? If that's true, why is it that EA/Dice has put it at such a disadvantage?

[imported_Sacramento]

Re: The question that needs asked...

Isn't the F-35 (in real life) supposed to be the most advanced and deadly aircraft created thus far? If that's true, why is it that EA/Dice has put it at such a disadvantage?

Where did you get this information?

[sassback]

Re: The question that needs asked...

is this an ok answer?
"it may be overpowered or a God of skys"

[colony]

Re: The question that needs asked...

Isn't the F-35 (in real life) supposed to be the most advanced and deadly aircraft created thus far? If that's true, why is it that EA/Dice has put it at such a disadvantage?

Thats the F22. But yes, the F35 is very very high up there because of its shared tech with the Raptor. Better gigahertz processors which allow faster intelligence, radar, etc plus its a stealth fighter.

It also has the HMDS, basically a HUD for the helmet of pilot. If you see a target , you can just turn your head and look at it, and thats where missile/bomb will go. So basically, in effect, your aircraft wouldnt even have to be facing an enemy aircraft or target to hit it with munitions.

"It really increases the pilot's situational awareness and gives him greater flexibility for being able to acquire targets of interest," he said. "From a tactics point of view, that gives the pilot an advantage to now look over his shoulder, find a target of interest, slew a missile to that target and shoot without ever having to turn the aircraft, which is a very limited capability in a conventional fighter." - http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Test...ckpit_999.html



Wish that was in BF2's version of F35 :)

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The question that needs asked...

LOL, you guys crack me up. Youre so linear that its sickening. This is exactly WHY DICE listenes to the community and fracks up with their game balance tweaks.

The one, most important thing you failt ot overlook by simply trying to be more "men" by saying "nerf up" instead of "nerf down".

Nerfing F35B up will ruing the balance between MiG and F35B. I hope this will be a lesson to learn for you, that you have to consider ALL effects the change does. Youre just as bad as DICE is with the changes.

[$kelet0r]

Re: The question that needs asked...

LOL, you guys crack me up. Youre so linear that its sickening. This is exactly WHY DICE listenes to the community and fracks up with their game balance tweaks.

The one, most important thing you failt ot overlook by simply trying to be more "men" by saying "nerf up" instead of "nerf down".

Nerfing F35B up will ruing the balance between MiG and F35B. I hope this will be a lesson to learn for you, that you have to consider ALL effects the change does. Youre just as bad as DICE is with the changes.

What are you talking about? The Mig is superior to the F35 - giving the F35 a viable advantage is hardly a call for it to be made godlike. I would like to see the F35 have a great airbrake using its VTOL capacity. If anything that would make dogfights more interesting not unbalanced. To my mind the Mig in game is the benchmark - the J10 has better manouverability than it, the F35 has less but is faster etc.
What cracks me up is you criticising other people's ideas without having any worth speaking of of your own

As to bluebunny for being pedantic, understand that the slang term 'to nerf up' means to weaken something by making its counters more powerful. You are nerfing a weapon by upping its enemies. Makes sense to me - you hardly say 'you think Metallica are the devil?' when someone says their concert was 'wicked' do you now

[Fakesound]

Re: The question that needs asked...

..why'd the build/make/design the Jet? what was it's purpose again?...
BF2 mimics that. Stop complaining, that's why they made theM!!!

[imported_wOoZiE]

Re: The question that needs asked...

They will nerf the j10 if they address it whereas all they need do is improve the F35b.
Nerf up not down.
Give the F35b a great airbrake and fix the massive hitbox and you will have balance and happy pilots. The j10's superior manouverability vs the F35bs superior acceleration/deceleration - the mere thought of it is awe-inspiring.

you see this is the problem
They should NOT reduce the power of the J-10
all they have to do is improve the F35b. Nerf UP not down.
It can still be inferior but still very competitive if it comes down to it

Very very awe inspiring I totatlly agree best idea yet.

[Carrot v1.5]

Re: The question that needs asked...

I think all planes need to die, and that I should get an e-cookie for saying this. We're only days away from the release of the Ultra-Omega-Sata-Raid-Ultimate-SuperDuper AA, it will be a monster, have a small nuclear warhead installed in every one, and travel at light speed.

[The Soup Nazi]

Re: The question that needs asked...

Thats the F22. But yes, the F35 is very very high up there because of its shared tech with the Raptor. Better gigahertz processors which allow faster intelligence, radar, etc plus its a stealth fighter.

It also has the HMDS, basically a HUD for the helmet of pilot. If you see a target , you can just turn your head and look at it, and thats where missile/bomb will go. So basically, in effect, your aircraft wouldnt even have to be facing an enemy aircraft or target to hit it with munitions.

"It really increases the pilot's situational awareness and gives him greater flexibility for being able to acquire targets of interest," he said. "From a tactics point of view, that gives the pilot an advantage to now look over his shoulder, find a target of interest, slew a missile to that target and shoot without ever having to turn the aircraft, which is a very limited capability in a conventional fighter." - http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Test...ckpit_999.html



Wish that was in BF2's version of F35 :)

Then my question ultimately is this: If the F-35 is such a technological marvel in real life, why did EA/Dice decide to put it at such a disadvantage against other aircraft? Does Dice Sweden have something against the USA?

The source for my comment about the F-35's technological superiority was from the Discovery Channel series "Future Weapons" (http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/fu...reweapons.html). It was featured in the episode "No Place to Hide" and the TV show host got to fly around in a simulation while one of the project's engineers stood by and directed him. Interesting stuff.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The question that needs asked...

What are you talking about? The Mig is superior to the F35 - giving the F35 a viable advantage is hardly a call for it to be made godlike.

Again, way to linear thinking. In maps where MiG faces F35Bs, there are 2 F35Bs, against one MiG. Id say the MiG needs to be slightly better than the JFS. And it is! ONLY sligtly better. The only pilots that fail in F35B against MiG are the ones that fly them both as if they were the same plane, with their distinctive differences, its a BIG mistake. If you make F35B equal to the MiG, youve ruined the MiG vs F35B balance. That is as simple as I can put it.

The only tweaks I could think of, regarding F35B is increasing the afterburner timer to 12 (from 10).

J10 nerf would include such things as
*increasing in roll speed (from current 2/3 *afterburner/non-afterburner* to 3/4) while keeping the ~1 second delay in control reaction. This way, it would be worse in multiple maneuvers that include rolling, yet still have an advantage in looping.
*decrease in afterburner timer. With J10 being capable of high speeds and MAINTAINING them, DICE screwed up with giving them 15 seconds of afterburner. In order to balance up with the F35B, it should be decreased to 7 seconds. In other aspect, the advantage in LOOP speed (turn radius) over F18 remains, which will be the only advantage now)

Thats probably it. You see, the balance isnt "totally" off, they just need some minor tweaks to keep the characteristics that make the planes different from each other, and make these characteristics more apparent.

Strenght in BF2 jets that matters in really, is the loop speed (turn radius). Cant make that 100% equal though. Its what I class as 1st category characteristic, as the most important one. So if you have one plane slightly better than other in this area, you have to have the other plane be A LOT better than this one in other, 2nd category areas, one of which is roll speed for example. AB timer and yaw speeds are more insignificant and belong to 3rd class characteristics, and these just enforce, and not define the jet.

I would like to see the F35 have a great airbrake using its VTOL capacity. If anything that would make dogfights more interesting not unbalanced.

Ive said it before many times, breaking in general has to have quicker response to make the dogfighting even more multi-dimensional. If the VTOL would increase the speed-loss time, even better.

To my mind the Mig in game is the benchmark - the J10 has better manouverability than it, the F35 has less but is faster etc.

But the F35 ISNT faster. Its just faster on paper. F35 has TREMENDOUS loss of speed in turns. The moment you turn, you drop below 900, and THEN you start speeding up. Whil the J10 keeps the momentum and stays fast, like the MiG that also stays more stable in speed (but is a lot slower). Reason is, that the JFS is coded as weighting 5000 tons, while J10 is 18 for example. So in practice the F35B is actually the slower fighter while the J10 is the fastest. Just because there are a few odd cases where F35B is faster (strato-run), doesnt make it a faster jet in general.

What cracks me up is you criticising other people's ideas without having any worth speaking of of your own

Youre being silly. Ive said all of this millions of times already... My main idea is that people fly all jets as if they were equal, then they get owned by other pilots who do the same thing, but have jets that are better in areas that promote that "generally accepted" ways of flying. And then they whine their hearts out that jets are inbalanced.

As it stands now, Its EASIER for me to track the F35B in the MiG than vice versa, but its because I dont have to put any effort into tracking because they usually just use loops and turns. No rolling, no speeding down, no tricks, no multiple maneuvers. Even though the MiG couldnt keep up! They fly as if it was a "Plane" rather than " a different plane". If I face a great pilot in the MiG while Im in the F35B, they go into a loop-war and I lose. BUT! I still get the timeframe to keep them in lock for my missiles. And I can still track them for quite some time for my board guns. When Im in F35B, they will never get a shot at me because they cant keep up with F35B agility. They will skip turns I make. And heres where again most JSF pilots fail. In these turns, all the MiG has to do, is to slow down and have a visual on all these turns. The JSF pilots objective is to make multiple maneuvers BUT also slow down, to keep the MiG as close as possible for it to A) pass or B) break off or C) lose you out of sight and break off.

And yet, Im inclined to accept that the balance between the MiG and JSF isnt perfect. It still needs minor tweaks. But its still more balanced than inbalanced, if you understand what I mean. MiGs characteristics compared to JSF are almost perfect. JSF needs -

*2 second boost in AB (from 10 to 12)
*slight boost in turn radius (from 328 to 305-310 or about 6% decrease)
*faster throttle response (all jets)

As for J10, it is superior to F35B in ALL aspects, including general speed, because as I said, F35B loses momentum where J10 for example doesnt. F35B drops speed a LOT, in the first stage of turn, while it regains it in 3rd stage, where it starts overshooting other jets. J10 doesnt have that problem, at least it doesnt show as that big. J10 does need to be nerfed down in order to keep the game balanced, however, I prefer smart people to give smart suggestions, to truly BALANCE the situation and not just cry for "dismantling" the jets for the weakenings sake.

Heres a small list for you, taken from BF2S jet guide I believe. While numbers may not be 100% correct, (I think he used maths. Took speed and measured time to make a turn to get the turn stats) they do give a solid overview of whats going on.

Nowadays, JFS has to keep the lock on the MiG for long enough to get the missiles off, and its capable of doing that, but could use a slight boost to do it better.

Man, Ive written this many, many times already, at least I hope its interesting to read.

F-18
Diameter of turn: 285ft
Time to do 360 turn: 7.5 Seconds
Maximum speed at 300ft: 1090
Maximum speed at 800ft: 1730
Maximum speed at 300ft with AB: 1290
Maximum speed at 800ft with AB: 2450
Time required to do a 360 turn using only
Yaw at 300ft: 24.4 seconds
Time required to do a roll at 300ft: 2.5 Seconds
AB fuel: 9.5 Seconds

F-15
Diameter of turn: 332ft
Time to do 360 turn: 8 Seconds
Maximum speed at 300ft: 1070
Maximum speed at 800ft: 1900
Maximum speed at 300ft with AB: 1270
Maximum speed at 800ft with AB: 2540
Time required to do a 360 turn using only
Yaw at 300ft: 22 Seconds
Time required to do a roll at 300ft: 3 Seconds
AB fuel: 13.5 Seconds

Su-34(MEC)
Diameter of turn: 290ft
Time to do 360 turn: 7.5 Seconds
Maximum speed at 300ft: 1060
Maximum speed at 800ft: 1840
Maximum speed at 300ft with AB: 1260
Maximum speed at 800ft with AB: 2520
Time required to do a 360 turn using only
Yaw at 300ft: 22 Seconds
Time required to do a roll at 300ft: 3.5 Seconds
AB fuel: 14 Seconds

MiG-29
Diameter of turn: 275ft
Time to do 360 turn: 7 Seconds
Maximum speed at 300ft: 1110
Maximum speed at 800ft: 1870
Maximum speed at 300ft with AB: 1320
Maximum speed at 800ft with AB: 2720
Time required to do a 360 turn using only
Yaw at 300ft: 20.8 Seconds
Time required to do a roll at 300ft: 2.5 Seconds
AB fuel: 14 Seconds

F-35B
Diameter of turn: 328ft
Time to do 360 turn: 8 Seconds
Maximum speed at 300ft: 1160
Maximum speed at 800ft: 1880
Maximum speed at 300ft with AB: 1550
Maximum speed at 800ft with AB: 3260-3540
Time required to do a 360 turn using only
Yaw at 300ft: 18 Seconds
Time required to do a roll at 300ft: 1.75 Seconds
AB fuel: 10.2 Seconds

J-10
Diameter of turn: 270ft
Time to do 360 turn: 7 Seconds
Maximum speed at 300ft: 1170
Maximum speed at 800ft: 1980
Maximum speed at 300ft with AB: 1400
Maximum speed at 800ft with AB: 2800
Time required to do a 360 turn using only
Yaw at 300ft: 18 Seconds
Time required to do a roll at 300ft: 2 Seconds
AB fuel: 15.5 Seconds

Su-30(CHINA)
Diameter of turn: 300ft
Time to do 360 turn: 7.75
Maximum speed at 300ft: 1200
Maximum speed at 800ft: 2080
Maximum speed at 300ft with AB: 1450
Maximum speed at 800ft with AB: 3060(fastest bomber)
Time required to do a 360 turn using only
Yaw at 300ft: 22 Seconds
Time required to do a roll at 300ft: 2.5 Seconds
AB fuel: 10 Seconds


EDIT: Fixed a couple of attention mistakes.

[colony]

Re: The question that needs asked...

good read chris

Then my question ultimately is this: If the F-35 is such a technological marvel in real life, why did EA/Dice decide to put it at such a disadvantage against other aircraft? Does Dice Sweden have something against the USA?

I really dont know. Maybe they thought it would be good for gameplay balance. But obviously against the J10 it isnt. Also, in real life, the J10 probably is more maneuverable than the F35, and since this is short range dogfights, it has the upper hand in this game. However they would most likely never get that close in real life, and the helmet system in the F35 would allow an F35 pilot to just look at the J10 by turning his head, getting a lock and firing which would mean maneuverability for the jet wouldnt be of as much importance anyway.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The question that needs asked...

MiG 29, I know, also has that system. Although not as advanced. It just increased the angle of attack for the short range Archers. F35B looks like having the whole HUD on the helmet, USA has some talented dogfighters working with their fighter development, as we know F16 was developed using (dont remember the name) a famous dogfighter.

But yeah, since its dogfights in BF2, you have to consider that superior maneuverability is the key. Also note that its said that Russian missiles are better than US ones. And, excluding the F-16, Russian fighters are more maneuverable. And even though the MiG-29 and F16 for example are very maneuverable, more than the bigger fighters (Su-35 and F-15), they can sustain that maneuverability advantage for only very short time and lower altitude. Short because of the fuel capacity difference.