Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

dalian, dragon valley, wake island are j10 vs f35
fushee pass is j10 vs f18 <-- great map for dogfighting, lame for everything else.
gulf of oman 1 mig29 vs 2 f35's, totally fair, since the su34 can help out.
kubra dam f18 vs mig29 <-- unfair on the mec as the f18 is a tough plane to take out.
op cleansweep, f18 vs mig29 <-- again unfair on the mec as f18 is tough to take out.
zetar wetlands 2 mig29 vs 2 f35's <-- totally fair
daquig oilfields j10 vs f18 <-- totally fair

seeing it put down like that, its actually not that bad planewise 3 maps are tough for usa with the remaining 6 being fair or in their favour. and the mig29 gets hit just as easily as the f35.

i have seen no difference in f15 and f18 missiles from 1.3, this is the first ive heard of it.

you will notice when usa is on a land based runway they get good jets.


like i said before the best thing you can do is push for improving the A2A missiles so that lock on time is longer and to hold the lock to hit. the answer is not to nerf loads of planes or make them all the same, that would be boring and no challenge. you wouldnt want every car in the world to use a 1000cc engine would you? a ferrari with 1000cc engine and a ford escort with a 1000c engine would be sooooooooo boring.

N.A.S.C.A.R. and most "Official" Stock Car, or Race Car Tracks have specific rules, that pretty much make each vehicle within the same specs. So yes, there would be an even chance for individual opponents, the winner's are usually those with the best all around skills, but that's beside the point, I am not trying to compare side by side, I just want the F-35 to show Air to Air Capability, so it can at least hold it's own, as they are armed with HS Missles, they just don't work worth a MO FO (excuse the language).

I litterally see most U.S. Jet "MISSILES" flying right past the Non-U.S. jets, on the other hand, when I fly NON-U.S. jets, The missiles actually work, and "NEVER EVER" do I have problems taking down my target. If you were to ask the majority of players, I bet most would take the Non-U.S. jets in a dogfight, Bomber for Bomber, Jet for Jet. The ratio should speak for itself, The Majority of Most Pilots in any forum I've been, agree. Claiming that the F-18 is superior to a Mig-19 is (in my opinion), is false. I fly these flying tins like nothing else in the game, and can testify to the fact, the F-18 has just recently been updated "again" in this last patch, and can "NOW" fire it's missiles with better accuracy, equal to that of the Mig. I'd still rather have the Mig, as I have better luck with them.

Yes, maybe they can change the F-35's Missile capability's now. Thanks for your input Zip.

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

dumbfire is when u shoot them without lock, its by far the best way to kill a plane instantly, works a treat on all planes including the j10 and f18.

patch 1.2 and above has made pilots think about their game more since if you fire your flares and get away, you must stay away untill they are reloaded. you cant just go around and expect to live. if you fly like a nub you will die like a nub.. simple.

from your post you seem to think the j10 is the almightly god and theres nothign that comes close, YOUR THE KINDA PERSON THAT ANNOYS ME. the j10 isnt that much better, it can easily be followed in anything if you know what your doing, dont waste the burner and use it only when needed e.t.c. the f35 does not require everything else to be nerfed down to its level, just a longer lock time, which if your any good you will get away.

so dont act like you know it all, because you dont, just like most other people with similar views.

Are you kidding me? Nothing can follow a J10 unless a braindead pilot is behind the stick.

If I'm in a J10, I have nothing to worry about from other aircraft.

Whether DICE does anything about it at this point, doesnt really matter to me. When I play BF2, its mostly armored fury maps, no A2A

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

I see your point, and admit you have a valid arguement. Thank You! Btw, The U.S. wouldn't arm itself with a knife in a gunfight, I think the Raptor would have been implemented in place of the F-35 against the J-10 and it's superior S2A missiles.

My problem is that we have a total of 4 maps that include the F-35's in-efficiency, or the J-10's over efficiency "HS" only!!! that being Wake, Gulf of Oman, Daquin Oil Fields, and Dalian Plant, that makes up for over half the Air Maps, so it take much of the fun out of Dog Fights, which I like as compared to bombing, bombing and bombing, which pretty much just ****es everyone off, including my own team (i.e. TK Punishes for high points, Won team wondering why they don't have targets, Voted out of game, or banned, constant name calling, etc,.) Take Gulf of Oman for instance, they have a 5 bomb load capacity for "VERY EFFICIENT" bombing, not to mention highly accurate A2A, but try to attack it with an F-35 and missiles just fly on by.

The problem I'm having is, why do the majority of all "NON-U.S.M.C. Jets" have better "MISSILE LOCK" Capabilities? Now add BF2 AeroPhysics to the non-U.S. jets with faster speeds and turning agility (making them much harder to hit), "constant" patch updates with no feedback as to what was changed, therefore leaving it up to us to try and figure why Non-U.S. Jets are less efficient. It does get pretty frustrating as this is not a flight simulator, so why give most if not all the advantages to Non-U.S. Planes? Took Patch 1.3 (almost a year later) just to spruce up the A2A on the F-15 and F-18), and that was only because enough people made complaints, as I am doing now.

Seems pretty fishy to me, Right DICE "SWEDEN", "CANADA" (ummm, both non-U.S. :hmm: but the U.S. being the biggest consumer and server rentals of BF2, seems it's true, everyone hates us Americans, either that or they know we would dominate hands down as pilots using accurate U.S. and Non-U.S. aircraft. BTW, Where the HELL is the Raptor?

dalian, dragon valley, wake island are j10 vs f35
fushee pass is j10 vs f18 <-- great map for dogfighting, lame for everything else.
gulf of oman 1 mig29 vs 2 f35's, totally fair, since the su34 can help out.
kubra dam f18 vs mig29 <-- unfair on the mec as the f18 is a tough plane to take out.
op cleansweep, f18 vs mig29 <-- again unfair on the mec as f18 is tough to take out.
zetar wetlands 2 mig29 vs 2 f35's <-- totally fair
daquig oilfields j10 vs f18 <-- totally fair

seeing it put down like that, its actually not that bad planewise 3 maps are tough for usa with the remaining 6 being fair or in their favour. and the mig29 gets hit just as easily as the f35.

i have seen no difference in f15 and f18 missiles from 1.3, this is the first ive heard of it.

you will notice when usa is on a land based runway they get good jets.


like i said before the best thing you can do is push for improving the A2A missiles so that lock on time is longer and to hold the lock to hit. the answer is not to nerf loads of planes or make them all the same, that would be boring and no challenge. you wouldnt want every car in the world to use a 1000cc engine would you? a ferrari with 1000cc engine and a ford escort with a 1000c engine would be sooooooooo boring.

[buteonidae]

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

I don't act like I know it all, although, I do know enough. I fly A LOT. I know all the tricks in the book, all that you've said is nothing new to me.

'dumbfire' is a new term to me, but I use the same method to kill J10s. I'm not saying it's almighty, because it is not, IF you know what you're doing. But it damn sure is overpowerd when it's up against an F35B! And I'm sick and tired of the magnet-like missles.

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

ok well there is an arguement as to why it shouldnt be as good as a j10 or a mig. usa attack from a carrier, it wouldnt be right if they had an unstopable force of planes invading due to things like, the carrier cant be capped, the majority of maps where usa invade, they can capture all bases quite easily. hence the defenders airforce needs to be strong.

now i dislike you using the word exploit, as it blatently isnt! yea the f35 gets hit nearly all the time, but its role is no longer flying around attacking everything, it needs to be used wisely, that is avoiding enemy and diving in for a quick and worthwhile attack and then legging it. several pilots can do this very well including myself, yes you dont get as many kills as you used to (30or40 kills and 0-3 deaths is likely), but it takes hard work and skill, sadly many people lack that and they die time after time after time.

now i take it your unhappy about not being able to use missles? ever use dumbfire missiles? i use them all the time, no locking and instant death for the target, they cannot evade them at all. its something pilots need to know how to do, but again sadly most do not. theres a;so cannons which i also use alot, but it seems no other pilot is capable of using them (ok some do but its rare), they normally spam all 6 missiles and hope for a kill and then go back to get some more, thats not really dogfighting, theres no skill or fun to it, its just plain gay :laugh:

the best solution to the problem is to increase the lock time for all planes, im not sure what the best amount would be, but it needs to be enough for a skilled pilot in any plane to break away. maybe missiles could get a boost if that happened ? its something that will certainly need thorough testing and definatly not a quick addition to a patch with bugger all testing like dice normally do.

now maybe i along with other top50 pilots should be beta testing to strike a good balance as its not always easy to convey how things should work by words on a forum to people that likely dont understand much about the aircraft in the game. and what dice do pickup always seems to go incredibly wrong.

I see your point, and admit you have a valid arguement. Thank You!
Btw, The U.S. wouldn't arm itself with a knife in a gunfight, I think the Raptor would have been implemented in place of the F-35 against the J-10 and it's superior S2A missiles. I know, it's an arcade as they say, not real, but at least even it up, we're not all "REAL" military pilots right?

My problem is that we have a total of 4 maps that include the F-35's in-efficiency, or the J-10's over efficiency "HS" only!!! that being Wake, Gulf of Oman, Daquin Oil Fields, and Dalian Plant, that makes up for over half the Air Maps, so it takes much of the fun out of Dog Fights, which I like as compared to bombing, bombing and bombing, which pretty much just P***es everyone off, including my own team (i.e. TK Punishes for high points, own team wondering why they don't have targets, Voted out of game, or banned, constant name calling, etc,.) Take Gulf of Oman for instance, they have a 5 bomb load capacity for "VERY EFFICIENT" bombing (Su-34), not to mention highly accurate A2A, but try to attack it with an F-35 and missiles just fly on by. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?

The problem I'm having is, why do the majority of all "NON-U.S.M.C. Jets" have better "MISSILE LOCK" Capabilities? Now add BF2 AeroPhysics to the non-U.S. jets with faster speeds and turning agility (making them much harder to hit), "constant" patch updates with no feedback as to what was changed, therefore leaving it up to us to try and figure out why Non-U.S. Jets are less efficient and why newbies (less air time) get all the credit?
It does get pretty frustrating as this is not a flight simulator, so why give most if not all the advantages to Non-U.S. Planes? Took Patch 1.3 (almost a year later) just to spruce up the A2A on the F-15 and F-18), and that was only because enough people made complaints, as I am doing now.

Seems pretty fishy to me, Right DICE "SWEDEN", "CANADA" (ummm, both non-U.S. :hmm: but the U.S. being the biggest consumer and server rentals of BF2, seems it's true, everyone hates us Americans, either that or they know we would dominate hands down as pilots using accurate U.S. missiles and aircraft. BTW, Where the HELL is the Raptor?

Edit: I've read all the specifics Duck1 wrote in this forum, and am already aware of how to shake a J-10, but when you have two of them....FK ME RUNNING!

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

dumbfire missiles what is that?

Anyways, the J10 stupidy has got to go.

I look at how the missles reacts to my movements, and it copies the EXACT movements I do, it's 'stuck' to your ass the second it's been fired.

It's not possible to take out J10's with cannon only if agood pilot is flying it, he/she will outturn you, even a not so good pilot will get away.

And I don't want to hide from it all the time. A lot of people have shared their 'knowlege' of how to get away or kill J10's, and all this information is playing against them now, because J10 pilots know how F35B pilots fly and they use this info to their advantge. That's why I never give any videos of my flying.

Anyways, J10 has got to be changed, nerf it down, beef other jets up, whatever, but it can not stay the same! I never fly J10s, I hate those ***** jets.

dumbfire is when u shoot them without lock, its by far the best way to kill a plane instantly, works a treat on all planes including the j10 and f18.

patch 1.2 and above has made pilots think about their game more since if you fire your flares and get away, you must stay away untill they are reloaded. you cant just go around and expect to live. if you fly like a nub you will die like a nub.. simple.

from your post you seem to think the j10 is the almightly god and theres nothign that comes close, YOUR THE KINDA PERSON THAT ANNOYS ME. the j10 isnt that much better, it can easily be followed in anything if you know what your doing, dont waste the burner and use it only when needed e.t.c. the f35 does not require everything else to be nerfed down to its level, just a longer lock time, which if your any good you will get away.

so dont act like you know it all, because you dont, just like most other people with similar views.

[buteonidae]

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

dumbfire missiles what is that?

Anyways, the J10 stupidy has got to go.

I look at how the missles reacts to my movements, and it copies the EXACT movements I do, it's 'stuck' to your ass the second it's been fired.

It's not possible to take out J10's with cannon only if agood pilot is flying it, he/she will outturn you, even a not so good pilot will get away.

And I don't want to hide from it all the time. A lot of people have shared their 'knowlege' of how to get away or kill J10's, and all this information is playing against them now, because J10 pilots know how F35B pilots fly and they use this info to their advantge. That's why I never give any videos of my flying.

Anyways, J10 has got to be changed, nerf it down, beef other jets up, whatever, but it can not stay the same! I never fly J10s, I hate those ***** jets.

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

Nobody mentioned Game Balance here, and who's to say anything is perfectly balanced, but it is true, you can balance out the HS ability on the F-35.You said it yourself, the F35 is crap against any missles, therefore it becomes an exploit for the PLA aviator pilots and maps. Before you attack anyone by pre-judging a players capabilities, I play about an hour and a half per day avg, and stay around aviator ranking #400 or less. If you read all my posts, I also said I have to rely on the F-35 guns and other counter measures, if trying to balance out a common problem the majority of most pilots agree, then you my friend are out numbered. Go figure!

If anyone has a valid arguement as to why the F-35 needs to stay where it is, I am all ears! Don't have the time? Then don't be a busy body antagonist please!

ok well there is an arguement as to why it shouldnt be as good as a j10 or a mig. usa attack from a carrier, it wouldnt be right if they had an unstopable force of planes invading due to things like, the carrier cant be capped, the majority of maps where usa invade, they can capture all bases quite easily. hence the defenders airforce needs to be strong.

now i dislike you using the word exploit, as it blatently isnt! yea the f35 gets hit nearly all the time, but its role is no longer flying around attacking everything, it needs to be used wisely, that is avoiding enemy and diving in for a quick and worthwhile attack and then legging it. several pilots can do this very well including myself, yes you dont get as many kills as you used to (30or40 kills and 0-3 deaths is likely), but it takes hard work and skill, sadly many people lack that and they die time after time after time.

now i take it your unhappy about not being able to use missles? ever use dumbfire missiles? i use them all the time, no locking and instant death for the target, they cannot evade them at all. its something pilots need to know how to do, but again sadly most do not. theres a;so cannons which i also use alot, but it seems no other pilot is capable of using them (ok some do but its rare), they normally spam all 6 missiles and hope for a kill and then go back to get some more, thats not really dogfighting, theres no skill or fun to it, its just plain gay :laugh:

the best solution to the problem is to increase the lock time for all planes, im not sure what the best amount would be, but it needs to be enough for a skilled pilot in any plane to break away. maybe missiles could get a boost if that happened ? its something that will certainly need thorough testing and definatly not a quick addition to a patch with bugger all testing like dice normally do.

now maybe i along with other top50 pilots should be beta testing to strike a good balance as its not always easy to convey how things should work by words on a forum to people that likely dont understand much about the aircraft in the game. and what dice do pickup always seems to go incredibly wrong.

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

theres alot of exageration in this thread. yes the f35 is crap against any missiles. but the game overall is balanced, j10 vs f18 is a fair fight, if not biased to the f18. the mig vs the f35 is totally fair.

i could go on.. but i wont as ive said it all before. but i will say if your not capable of taking a plane out with the cannon and following all its moves, then your crap and shouldnt be flying anyway. too many people rely ONLY on the missiles.

Nobody mentioned Game Balance here, and who's to say anything is perfectly balanced, but it is true, you can balance out the HS ability on the F-35.You said it yourself, the F35 is crap against any missles, therefore it becomes an exploit for the PLA aviator pilots and maps. Before you attack anyone by pre-judging a players capabilities, I play about an hour and a half per day avg, and stay around aviator ranking #400 or less. If you read all my posts, I also said I have to rely on the F-35 guns and other counter measures, if trying to balance out a common problem the majority of most pilots agree, then you my friend are out numbered. Go figure!

If anyone has a valid arguement as to why the F-35 needs to stay where it is, I am all ears! Don't have the time? Then don't be a busy body antagonist please!

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

theres alot of exageration in this thread. yes the f35 is crap against any missiles. but the game overall is balanced, j10 vs f18 is a fair fight, if not biased to the f18. the mig vs the f35 is totally fair.

i could go on.. but i wont as ive said it all before. but i will say if your not capable of taking a plane out with the cannon and following all its moves, then your crap and shouldnt be flying anyway. too many people rely ONLY on the missiles.

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

I fail to see the exploit. I think you need to brush up on your internet jargon.

The exploit lies on these principles, the F-35 A2A HS malfunctions most of the time, where using them (where Lock-On Tone is present), becomes nothing more than an alarm to alert the pilot if you were to use cannons, as your missiles fly right by or as if the J-10 were not even there. F-35 Decoy's or "Flares" are practically useless as the F-35 Collision tent is like a flying "Hot Air Balloon" Hard Bank and Roll with controlled Timing is critical for Flare activation, but usually doesn't do a bit of good except to ward off maybe a 2nd missile. So it's mainly the J-10 S2A Missile Accuracy and efficiency against the "In-efficiency of the F-35 in particular. To put it simply, Here is where it becomes an "Exploit":

Those who are aware of the J-10 Missile lock "accuracy" vs the F-35 Missle Lock "in-accuracy" only fly the J-10, and avoid the F-35 even if it means switching sides. Many people use this and spend countless hours a day primarily on J-10 Maps using the J-35 Highly Efficient Missile Capability to build their Aviator Stats or Win games for thier clan mates. The F-35 is a flying coffin against an experienced J-10 pilot,
I know! I fly them both, but do not exploit, this is why I'd like to act fair about it, and have it fixed! Sorry if my "Internet Jargon" doesn't meet your Southern Truckers CB Radio slang (jk = LOL) You may want to "Please" excuse my grammer however, or even spelling if that bothers you as well.

Trying to get a point across, not become the premier star of online forum posters. I have a life! My interpretation of a flamer? "Envious/Spiteful/Vengful/Antagonistic Little Miss America Beauty Queens wearing little pink tu tu's sabotaging the success of others" Over what? To look better? Real men act accordingly: Dignified, Curteous, Trustworthy and Polite! Treat others as you would want to be treated, this to me is more important than some game. The battle isn't the game so much, it's the deviant at heart that ruin all things for most of us.

[imported_Nefarious]

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

I prefer the J-10 over any other plane. Its a steady flyer compared to the F-35.

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

Use your damned MGs in bomb mode :)

Most of the times it helps.

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

Yeah i use the F/a 18 as much as possible but i just wish they put them on the carriers.

P.S. have you seen this forum... http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showt...erburner+timer

Thanks for the link, Great stuff about the F-35 and J-10's Aerophysics. However, F-35 A2A efficiency is somewhat vague as to why they don't have similar ability's as the J-10. They mainly talk of how to avoid being hit, but the question I need to know is, How to I hit the DAM J=10? :p LOL

Aside from the best BF2 info on Aerodynamics I've ever read (Whew! and Thanks "DUCKS1'), My favorite post pertaining to the A2A JSF and the SAA J-10's was this:

If you are talking against the J10, there is no hints. The problem is not getting away from an engaged J10, its killing one. I get behind J10s all the time, but killing them with missiles is almost futile 99% of the time.

If your missiles dont work, your aircraft is useless.



Like I have already said, you can escape a J10 with some good fast maneuvers, but killing them is the problem.

The problem seems to be that the tighter turning your aircraft is, the better missile accuracy your plane will have. Maybe this is my imagination. Almost every A2A missile shot from any other aircraft (except maybe the F15) will hit the f35b almost all the time with no problems. F35b missiles will miss sometimes even when the opposing aircraft is doing no real maneuvers. I remember you posted that A2A has 15 yaw and pitch, S2A has 30 yaw and pitch. J10 can dodge all A2A, but not all S2A. I imagine if the JSF had the same 30 yaw/pitch that S2A had, it would be much easier to down J10s.

All the other information I read (many thanks [DUCKS]Black_Duck1'), will no doubt help relieve some of the problems in Air to Air Defensive Tactical Manuevers. This made a lot of sense:

it is because the F35B has four virtual engines in this game. it is the only jet that has such a feature. In all of the jets only the rudders and elevators direct the jet. in the F35B you have four engines on top of the rudders and elevators. Also the smaller mass means faster response but more loss of momentum.

Now I started to think: if the only advantage for the J10 is the speed then the F35B pilots should be smarter in using their afterburners. if you are playing against the J10 then try to save the precious afterburner to a more critical moment like when a J10 is chasing you.

Also the F35B can roll faster which means faster reaching to the moment where you can use the elevators to make a sharp turn. if you use the gravity to your advantage with the afterburner then the F35B may escape a J10 attack (?). I just need a confirmation of this idea from a pilot who has the patience to keep trying to find what works and what does not.

[buteonidae]

Re: Air to Air HS J-10 vs U.S. Aircraft Exploit

NOTHING is better but the F35B, I love this jet, best jet in the game! And I hate the J10 crap.