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  • #61
    Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

    Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
    Have closed beta testing for awhile, and then release it for open beta for awhile, and then release final patch.

    There isn't the time for that. Most server owners are reporting constant crashes of 4-8 times per day. You can't keep a server full at that rate.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

      what they need are quicker, little quickfixes, implementing regularly. couldn't the amount of players needed be fixed without messing with much game dynamics, ie faster employment of some of the new aspects people do accept as being better in terms of use/fun?

      wouldn't, being able to start a game with a few less players, get servers up and running faster, or would it just lead to more crashes upon more users playing it?

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

        Originally posted by $kelet0r
        Are you that naive
        OK say you find a bug - a clanger, a reboot your computer and rape your monitor bug
        HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TELL DICE?

        Have you ever experienced a closed beta? Often people are locked in a room - they test everything weapons one by one. You get a rifle and you fire it. You reload it. You fire it twice. If there is a bug the devs stop everyone and try to get everyone to replicate the bug. They identify the bug. They source the bug in the code. They flag it for correction.
        How could this possibly happen with thousands of players all over the world - most playing for the laugh.

        I'll say it again - the beta testers invariably find all the bugs that we find in the final build. You would be mad to say otherwise - it's their job, you on the other hand might by chance run into one during play.
        THE PROBLEM IS DICE RELEASE ANYWAY.
        How will a less effective, less efficient, longer uncentralised process not be worse?
        This is a collective **** stroke by DICE - by getting everyone with an opinion excited about actually getting to test a game they love DICE are creating nothing but good publicity for a while until the patch actually ships.

        You seem to forget that the normal beta testers will do what they have all ways done.

        Now add in the fact that thousands of people will be finding bugs/glitches in a proper masive online game.

        Asa long as EA/DICE follow up these bug reports this should be the best and maybe the last patch BF2 needs

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        • #64
          Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

          I think its a good thing. EA is actually asking the community what we think. Isn't that what the haters have been bitching about? The same guys who say "I stopped playing BF2 because of EA"

          This is EA saying, "Ok, well help us correct these problems".

          if you don't participate in this or support it... don't bother playing the game. And if you say "I don't".. then why the hell are you on these forums?

          Step up or sign off.

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          • #65
            Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

            If I were EA I'd have two top teams test this and not a bunch of idiots.

            Either have Dignitas test it from Europe (sweden) or let 20ID do it over here in the states. They'll find all the problems or most of them guaranteed.

            Or better yet... just let SnarF test it.

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            • #66
              Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

              That's one way to get away from a enemy pilot on your tail...

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              • #67
                Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

                Originally posted by Fourty-Fizzle
                I disagree. Its generally a good thing. Developing large scale software for a living, I understand how difficult it is for a QA/Test group to simulate real world testing. Sure, they may fire up 10 or 20 servers, load them up with bots/people, and try and test key componets, but its impossible to test everything. Just thinking about fully testing something such as BF2 is mind numbing, there is just no possible way you could even come remotly close to fully testing something of this scale (with a normal sized QA group), and to do it by July? Absolutly no way. Then to think about taking into account different hardware, OS's, and setups... Insane isnt the word.

                As for the known bugs not being fixed, I wouldnt put the blame on the DICE developers. Generally, in my experience, the way this type of situation rolls is as follows; EA sets a timeline for DICE, they need this release by such and such a date. There are x number of known issues, all of which are given a priority, Critical, High, Medium, Low. The priority of issues will vary between Product Management, engineering, and QA. Unfortunatly, the engineers/developers generally dont have much say in what should get fixed first, while PM usually has the most, and QA's influence is somewhere inbetween. PM's generally know little to nothing about development, and dont understand why a developer cant snap his or her fingers and make everything work. Much like MOST OF THE PEOPLE I SEE COMPLAINING, PM (sometimes QA depending on the group) has even less of an understanding in regard to bugs. Just because a bug is known, does not mean its easy to fix. It may be an easy one and take only 15 minutes to fix, OR it may be an issue that is very complicated to debug, and take hours, days or even weeks (or more) to find and fix. Its just not as easy as many think it is. Its often times one of the more difficult parts of being a developer. Not to mention its generally boring, and developers would much rather work on something new than go through old code trying to track down a bug.

                As for bugs that get introduced in new patches, it happens, unfortunatly its expected to a degree, and the blame shouldnt always be on the developers. Take for instance the browser in the 1.3 release, its probably a pretty easy bug to find, and most likely has already been fixed. So why did such an easy to spot bug get into this patch? Probably for one of two reasons; PM said "its not a showstopper, we need to get this out, we have a workaround, work on something else", or QA simply didnt test the browser. There have been many times when I had a new version of software "approved" by QA, only to find out 2 weeks later when its released that there are obvious bugs. When I would go talk to them and ask how in gods name the software was approved, and the bugs were not brought to my attention, reasons ranged from not using clean test machines, to not installing it right (copy vs install), not having enough time to test that feature, forgetting to submit the bug into DevTrack, or even testing the wrong version. Many many many times I have wanted to grab a QA guys/gals head and beat their skull in with a brick for making such stupid mistakes. But ultimatly in the end, its just that, a mistake, and had more time been alloted for testing, or had I explaind something better, it would have been found and fixed.

                Developers are at fault sometimes as well. Code was poorly written, memory conservation was not thought about, etc etc etc. Such issues should not be upto a QA group to find, and should be taken care of by the developer. They are technical issues, and QA's main task shouldnt be to run engineering tests.

                Everything boils down to a few factors. Time and resources. Not enough time to test, not enough testers, too few developers, to few test setups, etc.

                So, why is a public beta a good thing? Many, many reasons. Instead of a 10 man QA group (which, suprisingly is considered fairly large) spending 400 man hours a week testing the software, you have THOUSANDS of people testing the software. With those thousands of people testing the software, come tens of thousands of different setups. Different video cards, different network connections, different OS's, different soundcards, different CPUs. Along with that huge testbed, you now have thousands of people using the software in a real world scenario. Each person will use the software differently, and code coverage goes for measly at best with a QA group, to near complete coverage. The completely off the wall things people do never ceases to amaze me. Take for example the hotel glitch. Unless the testers were looking for an issue specifically such as that one, the chances of finding that bug are very slim. Many testers wouldnt think to try that, its just how it is. Along the same path, no developer can think up every single instance of how a cardrop may be used. With an public beta, you get more people using cardrops in different ways, so you get a more complete coverage of scenarios.

                While a public beta wont ensure a complete bugfree release, it will allow for a much bigger test bed, and will allow for more bugs to be found. This doesnt mean the bug will be fixed, but if a bug isnt found, it will never be fixed, unless by mistake or the developer just stumbles across it while doing a code review. A public beta will allow for more bugs to surface, and general feedback.

                Both microsoft, google and AOL, three of the biggest software companies in the known world use public betas. Vista has been avaliable to developers as beta for several years, and public beta for a while now. Gmail has been public beta for several years as well. AOL always has public betas of AIM. Same with google earth, office 2k7, windows live, IE 7, google desktop search, the list goes on. How about the beloved Firefox/Thunderbird... beta for YEARS!

                There is a reason why they are all releasing public betas... because they really do help, a lot! As I said, not all issues get fixed, and not all bugs are found, but, the more people testing the software, the better.

                Also, while sure, people would like to be rewarded (with stats in this case) for testing the beta... it might be a bad thing, and I wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt happen. Think about the karkain hotel bug. In a beta, people are supposed to be looking for bugs. Where does the hotel bug lie in that light? Would it be something you get banned over? Again, one of the reasons you are beta testing is to look for issues like that. I dont know if it should be something someone beta testing should be turned into BFROE for. But, I dont think its fair to let them pad stats as a reward for finding a glitch.

                And for those who read the whole post, im sure my opinion is very different from yours. Hopefully you agree, and think the public beta will lead to a much more stable next patch, making it a fun and enjoyable game to play. For those who dont, flame me, call me a fool, say im an idiot, tell me my momma is so fat when she steps on a scale is says one at a time... whatever. If you dislike the game so much, think DICE does such a crappy job, and you know whats so great, what are you waiting for, go write your own game!


                I love quoting large posts.... :laugh:

                Most of what you said sounds very reasonable. Yes, open beta gives a huge amount of diverse conditions, hardware, etc. That is a good thing.

                Having said that, I believe that they just cannot figure out how to fix a particluar bug. The red-tag bug is a perfect example. Been around for a loooong time. Still not fixed, but, if memory serves, they had said in a patch release that it had been fixed. Ooopsie! I am by no means a coder. I couldn't even code a REM statement.

                I am absolutely sure that there are bugs that cannot be fixed, due to the complexity of the game. Fine. I have no problems with that. I do see the red-tag bug probably once every couple play days. Why can they just not come out and say it? Are they afraid? Do they think people will suddenly stop playing the game? Just come out and say, "You know, we've been trying to fix the red-tag bug for a long time, and we just cannot figure out what's causing it. We'll keep trying though, but we're not going to say it's fixed."

                When they introduced the visable UAV, they also "introduced" that distance marker under the map. (I think that's when it was...) They had to have seen it in testing. What was their decision process? "Well, it's annoying, but people really want to see that predator cirlcing around in the air" (sometimes 7 feet off the ground, but, I digress). They tinkered with something that worked fine, and introduced another bug. Personally, I would have scrapped that to get rid of the distance marker under the map.

                One patch release said that they were adding the capability to "pick up" claymores using (presumably) the G key. Then, they said the "community" wasn't ready for that, and it wouldn't "implemented" yet. Please. Will we ever get a release date when the "community" will be "ready" to pick up claymores? How about some honesty... "We couldn't figure out how to implement the code to allow snipers to pick up their placed claymores, so, we're pulling that from the next patch. If we can ever figure it out, we'll tell you then."

                I totally understand that some things just cannot/will not be fixed. If you can't figure it out, JUST TELL US YOU CAN'T! We won't be mad, we promise!

                I do not believe that an open beta test will make a difference at all in the next patch, but that's my opinion, and I've been known to be wrong. I'm not against having an open beta test, I just do not think it will make a difference.

                Bottom line, tell us the real reason bugs are still seen from day one. Don't try and pretend we won't notice that the server browser (Curse you Gaymspy!) is still hosed, among a myriad of other things.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

                  Originally posted by USI_Krusher
                  Having said that, I believe that they just cannot figure out how to fix a particluar bug. The red-tag bug is a perfect example. Been around for a loooong time. Still not fixed, but, if memory serves, they had said in a patch release that it had been fixed. Ooopsie! I am by no means a coder. I couldn't even code a REM statement.
                  I completely agree! I think that red-tag bug is so deeply rooted in the core server-client communications, that fixing it would require a major refactoring of that code. I dont think its someones dumb mistake breaking a switch statement too soon, or anything like that.

                  But still, i dont consider it a very major bug. Although, when it happens to me, i consider it a bit more major!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

                    it's actually a red/blue tag bug now. i've seen several blue enemies since the patch, and have read many complaints of seeing them. a clan i am friends with just recently got one of there players to join in on bf2, and the first night he was playing he saw the blue tag bug, which almost caused him to stop playing it.

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                    • #70
                      Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

                      what about that number that is always in the centre of a map (i fink its the objective refrence) That kinda annoys me, not essential to rid, but a prime example they cant even get rid of the sallest bug.

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                      • #71
                        Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

                        An open beta with reasonably good writeups for found issues is a good thing. Beta playing = no, Beta Testing= Yes. Just have to keep people on track, maybe disable all but one weapon set, test that for a few hours, switch to next one, etc.... I was a beta tester for Joint Operation and Escalation from Novalogic.

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                        • #72
                          Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

                          The only reason to have an open beta test is to test hardware compatibility issues.
                          I am not a coder or a tester or even software anything. If I was I would think it would be very difficult to find a bug in a page of code especially with this typical open beta tester.
                          "I crash to desktop when getting in a jet on Wake".
                          (How many time does this happen?)
                          "Well only one time so far."
                          (Was anything else running?)
                          "I was burning a dvd, and running 10 chat windows in the background"
                          (You probably overloaded your ram and crashed and is not consider a bug)
                          "No way my dual-core system is leet and have 2gigs ram"
                          So no way does open testing serve to help anything other than EA/DICE PR. (PUBLIC RATING)
                          Fourty-Fizzle you are correct that Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, AOL all do beta open beta testing. But the fact remains I PAID $50 for a game and do not want to beta test it. Especially considering the game has been out for over a year now.
                          1. red/ blue bug not a show stopper agreed but really annoying.
                          2. AT rockets fly through tanks and apc's. Truly affects game play.
                          3. Distance marker under ground really annoying while playing, kind of like a dead pixel.
                          4. Cartillary is really funny but really affects the game and was poorly implemented.
                          5. They stop squad hopping which for 99% online players was not an issue, so they stop it and now people get stuck in squads.

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                          • #73
                            Re: EA wants your input re: open beta patch

                            Originally posted by vascular
                            "I crash to desktop when getting in a jet on Wake".
                            (How many time does this happen?)
                            "Well only one time so far."
                            (Was anything else running?)
                            "I was burning a dvd, and running 10 chat windows in the background"
                            (You probably overloaded your ram and crashed and is not consider a bug)
                            "No way my dual-core system is leet and have 2gigs ram"
                            So no way does open testing serve to help anything other than EA/DICE PR.
                            That's the exception, but when twenty other people post the same thing they might actually have been on to something!

                            Look we are the beneficiaries here and don't you forget it.

                            Originally posted by almanac
                            If I were EA I'd have two top teams test this and not a bunch of idiots.

                            Either have Dignitas test it from Europe (sweden) or let 20ID do it over here in the states. They'll find all the problems or most of them guaranteed.

                            Or better yet... just let SnarF test it.
                            If these groups are so interested they can volunteer to participate just like everybody else. What makes you convinced they would have the same problems as yourself?

                            You people are underestimating the public and yourselves. I hope EA/DIce doesn't do the same in this instance.

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