Where'd the balance go?

[Varsol]

While we get patches tweaking the missles to jets on the one hand for "balance" while many maps remain insanely biased. And for the most part a large part of the bias is from a complete lack of any ticket bleed for one team when they dominate while handing it to another from the very beginning.

A majority of the flags isn't enough, you have to break out of your little box, take and hold multiple flags and posess a superior force of arms to even have a chance of winning. Own 9 flags while leaving the enemy 2, apparently that isn't deserving of a bonus that would be found on any other "balanced" map.

There doesn't seem to be any sort of common sense in many scoring situations and balance becomes a farce on maps like wake where arty on the carrier and carrier bombing is the norm. WIll anything ever change? I can't even begin to hope.

[Revoluti0n]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

The game is actually as balanced as it might ever be. At this point, it's not so much a question, issue, or problem of balance it's more about skill. By skill I mean the amount of time played, time used in vehicles, and the familiarity with the maps over all. You have some peopel that play non stop 8 hours a day. Others are more casual and play 2-3 hours a week. You cannot balance that.
Some people will always be better and worse than you at everything. I see so many threads complaining about the aircraft being unbalanced. It really isnt that, if a better pilot is flying against you, you WILL get owned, every time. Period.

Check this thread out and see some of the other points about this issue:
http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showt...balance+issues

[Varsol]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

I'm not refering to inbalance in vehicles so much as maps with discriminatory imbalance written in with the ticket scoring. Assault type maps aren't biased untill the attacking team is refused the ticket bleed they deserve after utilizing their resources to capture the flags just as the introduction states. When it becomes an all or nothing deal for one team and not another that just doesn't seem at all practical to me.

[RVPilot]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

Adapt and overcome. The statistics simply do not support the argument. On almost every map it is a toss-up who will win and it is usually based on teamwork.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

wake is entirely balanced, the problem isnt the map, its the players, and the jet balance:

1) START OF GAME: the problem is that everyone spawns on deck, runs for a vehicle, and ends up in the blackhawk with a ****ty pilot that either doesnt get enough altitude or doesnt give his crew a safe opertunity to bail. theres two boats with a total of 10 seats at the small island, at the begining of the game those boats can be used to get to shore and start the push. you brought up a key point, you cant just take one side, one boat goes on either side. i use this tactic effectivly quite often on wake wake axxium (32 player server) one begining of the game factor that you are missing is that anti tank can spawn on the small island and take out the armor and cars quite well. and thats the entire problem, its not the map, its that people just want to blindly assault rather than doing combat support when nessesary. a key part of the win isnt the air assets, its good squad leaders with good squadies.

2) OBJECTIVE: the key objective is to take the airfield, all the other flags arent important. the most concreate way is to either heli assault or boat to a safe deployment site at the closest flag (north village or south base). then to break through to the airfield while the enemy is occupied with taking thier bases back. another way that works is halo drops. a squad leader pilots a blackhawk as far up as he can (if you cant see the ground you are safer) and parachutes his squad over flags. both methods work, the key is to hold onto thier airfield and defend it.

3) KITS FOR ASSAULT: sniper is not an assault kit, nor is assault oddly enough, you are going to wanna go at, medic, and support(saw). with a competent squad leader and anti tank infantry squad moving up both sides, you can force the enemy to either spread thin, or turtle, which gives your air attackers a breather and a chance to do some combat support for your team.

4) FLARES/AA MISSILES: this is the real problem with the map, it has f35s. the f35 isnt as manuverable as the j10, which makes the cannon only valid when the j10 pilot is an idiot. and the aa missiles simply dont work on a j10 pilot that knows how to cork screw. to top it off flares dont do thier job, at all. tweaking values to jets and anti air missiles wont fix this, thats what dice tried to do a couple patches back and it just caused more problems and lack of balance. there is either bugged coding, or just a total lack of coding for aa missiles and flares. if these problems were fixed, the f35 could do some real good for thier team. oh and the fact that it takes about 4 times as long for an 35 to spawn as it does a j10 doesnt help much.

5) RECAP: the problem is the people and the jets. the map is fine as is.

if a better pilot is flying against you, you WILL get owned, every time. Period.

you sound like one of those abrams tank crewmen in iraq that says if we switched with the iraqi t72s we could have beat them just the same. trying to make this argument is like saying a guy with a knife can kill a guy with a gun, ofcource he can kill the guy with the gun. but how many comrads will be mowed down while the knifer manuvers to attack. its the same thing with the f35, most of the time im at an altitude of 600, because im waiting to spot a j10 doing an attack run so i can cannon him. in all that time he is takeing out blackhawks and boats left and right. why do i do this? because aa missiles dont work on j10s and if one gets on my tail at anything below 500 feet im ****ed, flares dont work. you should really shut your mouth.

Adapt and overcome. The statistics simply do not support the argument. On almost every map it is a toss-up who will win and it is usually based on teamwork.

well said, you just took my page of text and condenced it into a sentence, congrads.

[Revoluti0n]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

you sound like one of those abrams tank crewmen in iraq that says if we switched with the iraqi t72s we could have beat them just the same. trying to make this argument is like saying a guy with a knife can kill a guy with a gun, ofcource he can kill the guy with the gun. but how many comrads will be mowed down while the knifer manuvers to attack. its the same thing with the f35, most of the time im at an altitude of 600, because im waiting to spot a j10 doing an attack run so i can cannon him. in all that time he is takeing out blackhawks and boats left and right. why do i do this? because aa missiles dont work on j10s and if one gets on my tail at anything below 500 feet im ****ed, flares dont work. you should really shut your mouth.


well said, you just took my page of text and condenced it into a sentence, congrads.

You can make all the pseudo-intellectual inuendos you like, it still does not make what I said any less true. On Wake and Daquin, I've seen the same pilot own in the J10 and the F35. This guy was shooting down the J-10 with the F15 and the F18. Maybe it's me but you probably just suck BALLS at flying, or maybe you dont. Who knows? I really could care less.
I doubt anyone is impressed with the weak ass analogy between the Abrams tank crewmen and the T72's, but if you actually believe that skill is not a factor then you must be "impaired" beyond any logical standard. There is a big difference between skill (having a few hundred hours in jets), and the actual aircraft themselves. Last I checked, EA still hasn't made the patch that solves the "I suck, it must be the jets" fanboy warcry.

[DrJambo]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

roger smith, you're right in your summation, however, the truth of the matter is that Wake is unbalanced and exactly for the reasons you give in its defence. On most servers, although particularly the public ones, the essential teamwork needed to get off the carrier and take a flag is almost non-existant and the biggest culprit is usually an incapable blackhawk pilot. If the PLA had to rely on a similar degree of teamwork to succeed then the map might be considered balanced. However, the fact that the US side require a higher echelon of teamwork/skill to even achieve some semblance of balance with an average PLA side means the map is in fact, unbalanced.

Now, given that this always seems to be the case even months and months down the line, I hardly think that anytime soon in the future this is going to miraculously improve. So yes, Wake is a good map if all the things you say are present and the good players are spread in both teams, however, in reality it's a horribly imbalanced map that the PLA win a disproportionate amount of time. I've been on Wake servers and when you look at the listing of the "who's won" over the last 10 or so games the winning team is nearly always PLA.

And yes, this is compounded by the J-10 vs F35 and the fact that the sides often end up stacked in favour of the PLA.

[Lazza66]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

The problem with Wake is people.

The USMC have 2 things going for them on Wake. Firstly they have an uncappable and the PLA don't. Secondly they all start in the same place and 'could' launch a concentrated assault.

But that's where it ends, and the concentrated assault ends up being a "me, me, me" scene of debauchery. If USMC want to win on Wake they have no choice but to fight as a team.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

On Wake and Daquin, I've seen the same pilot own in the J10 and the F35.

you totally skimmed my post man. what i said before is that yes, a f35 pilot can take out a j10, but it takes time to set up at high altitude, this is time the enemy jets are raping your team and time you arent giving combat support to your own. also, i bet the j10 pilots that got owned werent even good enough to pull out of cannon fire/missiles.

Maybe it's me but you probably just suck BALLS at flying, or maybe you dont. Who knows? I really could care less.

http://bf2s.com/player/45061427/

I doubt anyone is impressed with the weak ass analogy between the Abrams tank crewmen and the T72's, but if you actually believe that skill is not a factor then you must be "impaired" beyond any logical standard.

i wasnt out to impress, i was out to make a good analogy, and i did just that. the armor and optics in the abrams is far superior to the t72, in a tank battle with that weapon, you dont need skill, the tank absorbs cannon rounds and can see/shoot far further than the t72. sure the americans could win that fight, but if they did it wouldnt come without losses unlike when they had abrams. its not that i believe that skill is not a factor, but this is a game, and games should be balanced.

you are a forum flamer man, pure-n-simple, look at the posts below yours, they discussed the issues without insulting anyone, and thats what forums are for.

The problem with Wake is people.

The USMC have 2 things going for them on Wake. Firstly they have an uncappable and the PLA don't. Secondly they all start in the same place and 'could' launch a concentrated assault.

But that's where it ends, and the concentrated assault ends up being a "me, me, me" scene of debauchery. If USMC want to win on Wake they have no choice but to fight as a team.

very nice rebuttle. thats pretty much the responce i was going to give.

[cyberbex]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

you totally skimmed my post man. what i said before is that yes, a f35 pilot can take out a j10, but it takes time to set up at high altitude, this is time the enemy jets are raping your team and time you arent giving combat support to your own. also, i bet the j10 pilots that got owned werent even good enough to pull out of cannon fire/missiles.

http://bf2s.com/player/45061427/

i wasnt out to impress, i was out to make a good analogy, and i did just that. the armor and optics in the abrams is far superior to the t72, in a tank battle with that weapon, you dont need skill, the tank absorbs cannon rounds and can see/shoot far further than the t72. sure the americans could win that fight, but if they did it wouldnt come without losses unlike when they had abrams. its not that i believe that skill is not a factor, but this is a game, and games should be balanced.

you are a forum flamer man, pure-n-simple, look at the posts below yours, they discussed the issues without insulting anyone, and thats what forums are for.


very nice rebuttle. thats pretty much the responce i was going to give.

welcome to the world of REVoLUTION im sorry but you hit the nail on the head there"forum flammer" there has always been some thing i couldnt put my finger on,but you just got it

[slam69]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

Most of the map are pretty balance out except for karkland and wake. like karkland is set up for the usmc to flow forward while leaving it as a defend only for the mec.High ground to low from the start, not to mention the armors they got from the get go.Same thing with wake, Armor on the beach and bunkers.except for the jets,whoever has the best pilot controls the game play.

[Fumang]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

zzzzzzzzz need more balance threads? as if balance hasn't caused enough trouble already

[HowieMandel]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

The game is, I believe very balanced. Although, I really do think the USMC is a bit on the shy end, of the balancing board.

The problem im seeing lately, is what is appearing to be, an unbalanced game.
But the Reality is, clans and a flock of sorta clans, using teamspeak, whatever, goes against another team that is consisted of basically a bunch of retards. SO you join, and get put on the retard's team..........and think, wtf....... lol.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

zzzzzzzzz need more balance threads? as if balance hasn't caused enough trouble already

what problems?

[scottmuecke]

Re: Where'd the balance go?

ive played about 50 wake maps and the usmc never seem to get off the damn ship.the carrier is the only good spawn pointbut there isnt enough transport. and that stupid island is a joke ive never been alive for more than 30 secs and as soon as u jump into a boat there r tanks from either side shooting the craap out of u. if u manage to make it out of your flaming boat and swim to shore. they just mo u down. also why dont admins do anything about artying the ship?? and does anyone think its ok to spawn-rape the ****ty little island with tanks?