PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

[Flanker]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

Its the game. They decided to add some last-minute effects and offload them to the PPU, instead of doing the whole software Physics calculations on-the-fly. In the end, they just ended up giving the GPU more to render, thus the drop in FPS.

[sackynut]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

haha yeah i saw a creative ad saying you can get 40% more FPS in bf2 with an x-fi... BS. and GR gg...

[Smiley_ie]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

I have the money and was going to buy one of these. But after playing GRAW it runs so ****e compared to every thing else i have inc BF2 & Fear If your FPS drop with this card whats the point, so you can watch more objects move around slower ? balls

[Painl3ss.NL]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

As I see it the current bottleneck in games is Graphics (and sometimes RAM), not CPU. PhysX is not fixing that bottleneck, so it's currently worthless.

It will become interesting when the CPU actually becomes the bottleneck, but thats not where we are now and if CPU's keep scaling up I don't know if it will ever happen.

[Flanker]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

As I see it the current bottleneck in games is Graphics (and sometimes RAM), not CPU. PhysX is not fixing that bottleneck, so it's currently worthless.

It will become interesting when the CPU actually becomes the bottleneck, but thats not where we are now and if CPU's keep scaling up I don't know if it will ever happen.

THANK YOU. You're one of the few people that understands this. Its such a scary concept that most people are afraid to admit it and tell themselves otherwise, and eventually end up believing it. "Get a better CPU, you'll get better performance in games." Sound logical, doesn't it? It isn't after a certain point. All you really need is a A64 3200+ Venice or a 3.4GHz Prescott and you're good for a X1900XT/7900GT.

[lonegunm4n]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

yea, used to it was the video card, cpu and ram combined to form a kind of bottleneck, but with faster processors coming out, including things like Hyper-threading, 64-bit technology and dual core, things are sliding more and more towards the GPU being the bottleneck. People are also getting more and more RAM. Used to, back when I got into BFV, you really only needed a gig of RAM to play it well. Now, you need 2 gigs for BF2. As games are getting more and more stressful on RAM, people simply buy more.

Ageia claimed with the PPU that it would help take some of the strain off the CPU, but whoever said the CPU was being that strained in the first place?

Right now, it's pretty much waiting for the gfx companies (ATI and Nvidia) to catch up with the rest of the computer market. Once everything gets closer in performance, I believe thats when the PPU will start taking off. You no longer will get the graphical slowdown when you enable physics, you actually will see a performance increase with the PPU.

When will that be? I honestly don't know. That's for Nvidia and ATI to decide.

[Flanker]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

Ageia claimed with the PPU that it would help take some of the strain off the CPU, but whoever said the CPU was being that strained in the first place?

HAHA, YES! You guys are some of the only people I've seen come up with this on your own. Amazing!

[lonegunm4n]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

HAHA, YES! You guys are some of the only people I've seen come up with this on your own. Amazing!

If I disappear, you'll know why. Aegia's hitmen are out to get me, because I uncovered their plot! :laugh:

[Eternal-Souljah]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

Physx is new, maybe they will start to develop better ones in the future, wait till like next year or something.

[Tenshi]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

As I see it the current bottleneck in games is Graphics (and sometimes RAM), not CPU. PhysX is not fixing that bottleneck, so it's currently worthless.

It will become interesting when the CPU actually becomes the bottleneck, but thats not where we are now and if CPU's keep scaling up I don't know if it will ever happen.

The CPU is causing a bottleneck...hence the total change CPU usage of DX10.

The behaviour of GRAW is no basis to decide on its potential or even its performance.

There is no way to benchmark a PPU effectively...what does FPS have to do with physics performance?

Current physics in games is terrible.

The demos of Cellfactor required the graphics to be turned down because the PPU created more geometry than the GPU could render...wheres the bottleneck there?

A CPU cant do 530 million spheriod collision detections while running everything else.

That whole "i have to buy a PPU aswell" is bollox...since the integration of a PPU will reduce the need for a highend CPU and GPU.

These are only the first generation ones...how much was the first ever 3D GPU? (remember to add inflation).

..anyway, in a few years they'll be standard and people will wonder how we coped without them.

HAHA, YES! You guys are some of the only people I've seen come up with this on your own. Amazing!

You ever seen the performance hit you get when you do collision detection?

Before you even concider what most people call "physics" ..ragdolls and cloth.

[Painl3ss.NL]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

The CPU is causing a bottleneck...hence the total change CPU usage of DX10.

I have limitted knowledge of DX10, all I know is that DX10 will make it easier for desktops to use 3D. Making renders better interuptable, etc. What change are you talking about?

There is no way to benchmark a PPU effectively...what does FPS have to do with physics performance?

If you generate more objects then you can show, whats the point?

Current physics in games is terrible.

The demos of Cellfactor required the graphics to be turned down because the PPU created more geometry than the GPU could render...wheres the bottleneck there?

The GPU apparently, which was my point. Why use a PPU if you can't render its result.

That whole "i have to buy a PPU aswell" is bollox...since the integration of a PPU will reduce the need for a highend CPU and GPU.

Possibly the need for a highend CPU, but it does nothing for the GPU.

..anyway, in a few years they'll be standard and people will wonder how we coped without them.

That may be true, it could go the same way as the graphics cards. Current games were developped based on currently available hardware, it may require new thinking to make full use of the PPU and let it shine. It may allow for much better physics in all kinds of simulations, but we don't know yet, we do know that GRAW with PPU is not a great start.

[imported_Wasp]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

With the GRAW demo I get 15-20FPS with cheap settings on a 2800Mhz AMD 64 with 2Gb 500Mhz OCZ RAM and a 7800GT. I wouldn't use that pos game as a benchmark for anything.

Ageia can do physics that you can forget about on a standard CPU. The Cellfactor demo has hundreds of objects flying around that can do damage to the players. The physics abilities of that card can also be used in ways that would have no negative impact on the GPU.

The biggest concern I have with Ageia is the use of the PCI bus. It's going to be interesting to see if there will be a difference in overall performance with the PCI and PCI Express version. Ofcourse this test should be done on a game that uses the card properly.

[redearedslider]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

If I disappear, you'll know why. Aegia's hitmen are out to get me, because I uncovered their plot! :laugh:

quick guys, all donate 150$ to lonegunm4n so we can save him from his horrible destiny !!!111!!!!

oh yeah, and somebody hire George Clooney, Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt so we can make an !ACT NOW! commercial...

Dont worry, we got ur back

anyways i think this agia PPU is totally useless, total overkill atleast for now....I play GRAW without the processor and it runs just fine, doesnt lag out when there are explosions, so i wouldnt know why somebody with a similar processor or higher should need it....

Just another useless moneymaking thing, it's just best to put that extra 150$ in ur processor or videocard...

[Flanker]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

Its pointless right now, but by the end of this year (or maybe beginning of 2007), it should become a VERY valuable piece of hardware.

What it needs is something big to launch it off. GRAW was a crap game as far as PhysX went (the game itself is excellent), we need a real PhysX-supporting game. Hopefully, thats UT2K7.

There no doubt that, EVENTUALLY, a PPU will become as necessary as a GPU, even without the PhysX card existing. It may take a while, but its inevitable. I, personally, wouldn't mind buying one for $200 if atleast a dozen major titles supported it.

[rombaft]

Re: PhysX (Cellfactor) videos updated.P

the physX card at this moment is indeed completely useless, there aren't games on the market who use it like it should .

indeed the CPU isn't realy the bottleneck anymore at this moment, but the reason why is because gamedevelopers made there gameengines to the curent and near future CPU power .

Now, if we look at the video's at the PhisX site, we see a totaly difirent story, not seen in any games today, and if they would add things like this (like the steel bending stuff) into the games now and let the CPU do his thing, your system wouldn't hold some FPS at all . then this card would come in handy .

also they feature GRAW , big joke, the game engine of that game is one big joke , HDR workd totaly unrealistic, game engine doesn't have a real lightsource at many points, .... , the game only uses the card for some plattering pieces flying around, also a joke .

reasons why not to buy this PhisX card !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- ONE : at this moment not one game truly suports this card,at this moment not one game truly uses the features of the card.
- TWO : Microsoft is going to set a standard for physical rendering, like directX , this way it's way better for the gamedevelopers to fully focus on the Physics part, instead of now bit focus on PhisX Agia, ATI physics, Nvidia Phisics, CPU phisics (yes ATI and Nvidia are also working on Phisics ) . and it will get more and better features (like we got newer shaders and stuff for our vid cards) .
- THREE : this thing is brand new , to new, meaning expensive, no real competition at the moment, so expensive for what you get, also there will be bugs in it.