X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

[GeoffRowley]

I'm buying this new computer, and I'm wondering which video card to get. I've looked everywhere for becnhmarks, and I thought that the 7600 GT OC was the best preformance for value.

But actually I've found that the 3 (or 4 I suppose) are much closer in the benchmarks then first thought.

Which one do you think is better and why. Pros and Cons of them would be terrific.
edit #1 - As would some screnshots.
edit #2 - If theres any question, the 256 MB one

Anyone interested, my computer is

http://secure.ncix.com/ncixpc/index.php?action=config&id=331574&subid=2#j109

[sackynut]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

it says 7600gt in your siggy.. already choose?? lol .
anyways, I would probably say 7600gt OC, or evga (they have good warrenty). but I mean I dont know the exact benchmarks. I know the x1800GTO is a slightly-not-as-good version of the XT, and the XT performed CLOSE to the 7800gtx, and the 7600 performs a little bitter than the 6800gs (not overclocked). Here are some benchmarks comparing many other cards including the x1800GTO... decide from there.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/09/ati_and_nvidias_same_day_mega_launch_mayhem/index.html

looks to me like the 7600gt is usually tied with the x1800GTO or beats it in benchmarks, other than 3dmark, but for some reason Ati performs better in 3dmark... but its about the gaming right?

[i made you]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

The X1800 GTO flashes to XL with modded bios.

[GeoffRowley]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

If you don't mind me asking, whats a BIOS. I think its a chip right?

Oh and I know that my signature could be trimmed down a whole whack, but I'm just happy and proud for it, you know? This is most most recent computer purchase for a few years. My current PC is a Dell Dimension 2350, 256MB ram and rubbish videocard, something like Intel Graphics Extreme. This will be my first above average computer. Finally.

[megawhompertoo]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

B-I-O-S= Basic Input/Output System

You're right, though--it is a small chip that directs traffic on the board board, dictates what bits go, what bits stop, and the permitted speed limit of all the bits as they zoom around your copper and silicon circuit board.

The bios does this via instructions; "flashing" the bios teaches it a different set of instructions, replacing the original one. The "gto" bios says: you can go this ______ fast. The "xl" bios says "you can go a little faster", and the hardware will tolerate the commensurate, modest bump in frequency.

YOU CAN BREAK YOUR BOARD PERMANENTLY IF YOU AREN'T CAREFUL, OR ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH YOUR BOARD, OR DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. NOTE I SAID "OR"; there are plenty of otherwise fairly experienced computer semi-gurus who've broken countless MOBO's and GPU's by reading something BobFromTheInternet posted as "Ultimate Guide to Flashing Ur Bios, Dude".

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

Rule number one with flashing Bios of any kind.

NEVER LOSE POWER.

[GeoffRowley]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

I'm not sure what motherboard to buy for my computer, the one listed is somewhere around $125. What could have maybe one PCI-E slot and run well. I don't know much at all about motherboards, so any information would be awesome.

[megawhompertoo]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

I'm not sure what motherboard to buy for my computer, the one listed is somewhere around $125. What could have maybe one PCI-E slot and run well. I don't know much at all about motherboards, so any information would be awesome.

here's one for almost half that. it has one PCI-E (x16)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131569

Here's the same one (refurbished; you may not get any cables with it) for ~$57

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131569R

Some folks swear by the ASUS brand; I think the price is right and their products are pretty good--I'm running a p4s800mx ASUS setup right now, in the same case as in your sig. I built it from scratch and have NEVER had a problem. The documentation from ASUS is always good.

edit: here is detailed promotional information on this board:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=16654&vpn=A8N5X-UAYVZ&manufacture=ASUS

[cloakster]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

i still dont know, didnt u already buy your comp

[GeoffRowley]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

I've just got enough now to pay for it, so I'll be mailing the check on friday.
I just want to be sure I'm getting the best value for the money, because I don't think I could trust myself installing a new motherboard> It's not as if I'm terrible with computers, but the hardware is much kore of a grey area.

[cloakster]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

well one thing is GET 2GB OF RAM you will be very happy when you will be able to play BF2 a lot smoother all high

[Razorbladehaze]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

I say get the X850XT if it is a Platinum edition if not get the x1800, 7600 is not a very good card.

[GeoffRowley]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

Why isn't the 7600GT a good card. I;ve heard from many that its terrific and overclocks like a beast. ie. http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showt...light=two+gigs

Why would you say it isn't good is really what I'm asking.

[Razorbladehaze]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

Ok you asked so I will try to sum it up, but it may be a longer post, and ill probably have to come back and edit and crap but here we go.

First off I will let you know that I am biased towards ATI products. Although I have used NVIDIA as well.


7600GT

The good:
1.) It uses a new gpu g73 which is a derivative of the 7900's g71 gpu, which is a nice gpu. This gives the 7600 high clock speeds and other new gpu features.

The bad:
1.) Although the g73 is a new gpu it basically is the g71 cut in half, therefore it has been altered in some very important areas (mostly pipelines on vertex shaders and the like). So although you use the good gpu with good features, it is neutered and will never perform like it should.

2.) It is basically built on a 6600Gt architecture circuitboard, which we all know by now is not a very good card anymore. The main problem with this is the card uses a 128-bit interface, which is going to cause bottlenecking so once again the card is neutered. They basically slapped on an extra 128 of mem, but that is not nearly as important (in my opinion) interface speed, ill try to use a metaphor to explain this in just a bit.

Ok to sum this part up, the 7600gt uses a good gpu, but it is altered. Additionally it uses a very weak architectural build process, which is why the card is cheap. The 128 -bit interface is going to show problems with running future games smoothly. Basically the card is inferior hardware, although it still performs well in many current games. The real competition bracket for the 7600Gt is the 1600Xt which on paper is close but the 7600Gt tends to perform better in most cases.

Ok ill make my metaphor now for the bit comparison thing. Ok Radeon did this thing to sell a cheap card which you may already know. But back when the x800/x850's were the new gpu's, radeon stuck a neutered R350 on a card with 256mb mem, and 128 mb interface (radeon 9550). This is the 9800 gpu (R350) with a weak interface; the 9800 outperforms the 9550 hands down. There are other influences on the performance differences between two but it is a clear example that bandwidth is more important than memory. The companies tend to bump memory cause 1. It is cheaper than creating cards with higher bandwidth interfaces, 2. The gaming market tells naive players that you need x amount of memory so they think that is important when in reality that is probably the least useful aspect to a video card.

Ok moving on

The X850XT PE is the top of the line card for that generation of GPUs. To start I will say that in published 3d mark 05' scores (done by two different groups experiment groups) show that the X850XT PE out performs the 7600gt. In any game within the next year it will probably be on par or better than the 7600. I have not seen any publications that show its (x850) score on 3d mark 06, which will bring me to my next point. Although the x850 outperforms the 7600gt right now future games (1yr+) may take advantage of some of the 7600's extra features. But...

The X850XT PE uses great hardware setup, and is to say the least a very reliable platform. In any game within the next year it will probably be on par or better than the 7600. The x850 uses 256mb of mem, and has the all important 256-bit interface. The only downside is the processor, which is not a bad downside since it was superior to nvidia's previous gpu anyways, and nearly as good as the 7800 gpu.

The X1800Xt is probably the best overall hardware picture between the three; it uses a newer gpu, new board architecture, 256 interface, 256 memory. It is a superior card to the 7600 in every way including performance. To compare these two is idiotic. The x1800 is actually a competitor to the 7800 series witch tends to swing back and forth depending on areas you test them in. If you plan on using sli then 7800 have tended to be more reliable, but the 1800's outperform (from what I have seen)

So my recommendation for the X850XT PE is actually close to going for the X1800. But I went for the former because I assume you want it mostly for BF 2 which is probably a platform they tested and designed the game with giving better performance for that card. The x850 is a top of the line card period it will perform like it with any game around its year of make (+/- 1yrs). Also most important to me is the 256 interface, so it is not going to be bottlenecked by the interface during ingame playtime.

Finally as to oc'ing I personally think that oc is a waste. I have done it before, yes, but I don't go out looking for new card to overclock. Here is the way I see it. Buy a card for it's features and performance stock.

Because every card will clock differently, between systems and even the same exact make of card. It's not predictable so don’t base decisions on it. Moreover oc'ing any part of your system leads to additional heat and stress, both of which cause failures, artifacts, and ruined components. If not ruin it will surely shorten their lifespans, I for 1 don’t have the cash to burn on new vid cards every six months.

the card is designed that way for a purpose, and yes I know many people want to get the most outta their card or get the highest benchmarks (if you're doing it temporarily for benchmarking I find that ok) but constant ocing is not a good thing, and yes I know there are exceptions to this, but that is a gamble like I mentioned with each card being different.

The best time to OC is when you are starting to consider buying a new one any ways, by then the card is going to get the most from the oc, as it has probably has seen newer GPU's take it's place. To keep up the performance in a game where it may be supported but is on the lower half of that support list.

Specifically relating to the 7600GT the oc'ing for that card is probably cause the GPU is new and has not had variations on it yet, so right now yeah it probably can oc well. The problem is with that card your beating a dead duck, because the interface is poor, and the pipelines are neutered.

There we have it I’m done yes there are many exceptions and what I have said will probably make some people frustrated, to what I have researched it the truth, with some bias I’ll reiterate. But for the most part is a fair (as little bias as possible) comparison of hardware breakdown.

Yes some of the performance marks for the 7600GT are good, but it is still inferior hardware compared to the two listed above.

It is much cheaper than both X850XT PE, and X1800XT, so that is another consideration but you get what you pay for in most cases.

edit:
In the x1800 department i thought you were considering the xt not the gto, and i personally dont like the gto i think it would be best to go with the xl, xt versions, most of my comments refer to the xt's.

[GeoffRowley]

Re: X850XT / X1800GTO / BFG 7600GT OC or the eVGA one

I seriously appreciate the time you spent puttiny real information and your opinions of the 7600GT. I'm taking this into consideration and am starting to lean towards the x850xt. Thanks a whole whack.