Question for Nvidia users...

[Blackhearted]

hey folks. to start off, here are my system specs:

Athlon64 3000(1800mhz) overclocked @2300mhz
1gb GEIL pc4000 DDR RAM
evga Geforce 6600GT AGP overclocked to 550 core/1ghz mem
SB Audigy II value
Hitachi Deskstar 7K250 SATA
NEC Multisync 90GX2 19" 4ms LCD

everything running smoothly. BF2 crashes sometimes after 3-4 hours or so of playing but it is not due to overclocking since it does it even @ and below stock speeds. im not really worried about it, i hear that going to 2 gigs of RAM eliminates the problem though.

i am using the following video settings:

1280x1024 since that is the native res of my LCD. in addition i have sound at medium quality and EAX enabled.
at this res i get between 68-90FPS steady, with a rare drop down to low 40s or so in *huge* firefights in the middle of an artillery strike. ever since 1.2 i lag like mad for the first minute of a new map, but that settles down after that.

now heres my question:
i have a socket 939 board, and DDR memory. ive never had a problem running games (except FEAR) at high settings until i got BF2.
ive never been one to buy bleeding edge video cards because usually the price/performance ratio is pretty weak. but ive been eyeing the 7800GS and 6800GS AGPs, considering an upgrade, thinking i could bump some more options up to high and turn on antialiasing.

the performance/price ratio is vastly different between PCI-E and AGP cards these days. a 7800GT costs around as much as a 7800GS AGP and will beat the pants off it. so if i want to get a good deal vid card, id have to upgrade my mobo to a PCI-E one. then i might as well get a new processor too, since im not the type to leave a mobo just laying around unused. then the vid card, etc.

is it worth it? or should i just bide my time and wait for the new DDR2 athlon 64 platforms and then do a full system upgrade with a new vid card then? im just worried ill go out and spend $500-600 on system upgrades for BF2 only to realise that there really isnt any earth-shattering difference in visuals.
yes, i realise that a 7800GT will smoke a 6600GT - thats not my question at all. is the difference between running it at my current settings or maxxed out settings so huge? if you were in my shoes would you upgrade, or wait for the next gen? i have the money for an upgrade but i am pretty frugal in that i dont want to spend it unless there is a serious increase in my enjoyment of BF2.

on another note - does anyone have any recommendations on what settings to tweak with my setup? ive tried turning on 2x antialiasing and while it looks better i lose about 15-20FPS on average. so its around 65-68 and dips down from that depending on whats happening, sometimes into the 30s. it looks better but - although some people argue the human eye cant tell the difference between anything over 25fps - it feels more sluggish to me. id like to keep running in 1280x1024 res, no need to go higher.

thanks :)

[Talus]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

If I were YOU?

I'd get 2 GB of RAM.
Then, I'd save up for a decent PCIemobo/7800GT combo.

Use that for another year.

THEN...wait and see what the new AMD platforms have brought by that point.

Personally, I'm shopping around for a PCIe mobo and 7800GT combo myself to help boost performance from my current 6800GT AGP.

[imported_Max_Cavalera]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

TWO GIGS ALL THE WAY. Dude dont even worry about this UNTIL
you get two gigs. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE between 1 and 1.5 gb RAM so 2 is the way to go, especially if you have a dual channel mobo. I cannot preach this enough.

Both of my Amd 3800's run AGP 6800 ultras
w/ 2 gb RAM @ 1280x1024x85hz w/ 4xAA
NO LAG

[Blackhearted]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

if i buy another pair of 512meg sticks and go to 2 gigs, then i have to drop down from 1T command rate to 2T.
in 99% of cases, that is a significant performance DECREASE (5-20%) as opposed to an increase, even considering the extra gig of memory. perhaps this is different with Intel systems, but with the amd64 its a known limitation... unless of course i ditch my RAM entirely and get 2 sticks: 2x1024.

i dont really want to shell out a ton of money for memory that will be obsolete by the end of summer. with my next rig i will buy 2x1024 DDR2 800mhz to start. but with the winchester core, and Abit AV8 motherboard, going 2 gigs with 4 sticks will be a performance downgrade in a lot of ways, and 2x1024 will cost me minimum $300 canadian +tax, and ill be left with a gig of decent ram rotting on my desk.

if i had $hitty ram to begin with, and was already running at 2T, id make the plunge instantly. but im at 1T with some decent timings so i dont know...

[Talus]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

Trust me...the performance GAIN in BF2 from 2GB far OUTWEIGHS any possible decrease you may see going to 2T.

I went from 2x512 PC3200 to 4x512 PC3200 and HOLY MOLY what a difference!!!

[imported_Max_Cavalera]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

if i buy another pair of 512meg sticks and go to 2 gigs, then i have to drop down from 1T command rate to 2T.
in 99% of cases, that is a significant performance DECREASE (5-20%) as opposed to an increase, even considering the extra gig of memory. perhaps this is different with Intel systems, but with the amd64 its a known limitation... unless of course i ditch my RAM entirely and get 2 sticks: 2x1024.

i dont really want to shell out a ton of money for memory that will be obsolete by the end of summer. with my next rig i will buy 2x1024 DDR2 800mhz to start. but with the winchester core, and Abit AV8 motherboard, going 2 gigs with 4 sticks will be a performance downgrade in a lot of ways, and 2x1024 will cost me minimum $300 canadian +tax, and ill be left with a gig of decent ram rotting on my desk.

if i had $hitty ram to begin with, and was already running at 2T, id make the plunge instantly. but im at 1T with some decent timings so i dont know...

DUDE...good point

[Blackhearted]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

hmm
i have an extra gig of ram i can try it out with. i have a gig of corsair ram in my g/f's comp, which happens to be my old comp - on an ECS K7S5A mobo. so i can steal the gig from there and 'downgrade' her to a gig of SDRAM (the board supports both SDRAM and DDR), heh. if she ever finds out though shes going to hurt me.

i will have to seriously dumb down my memory timings and return my memory to 400mhz for it though - its value ram that wont even overclock by 2mhz.

*edit:
i also have to consider that this is my work comp. i work from home (3D), and im not sure how this upgrade/downgrade will affect me. if its a performance hit in other programs ill have to switch back.

[Talus]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

Just see what happens

I did something similar with my system.

I had 2x512 PC2700 ... so I bought 2x512 PC3200 and put all 4 sticks in together and ran them at PC2700 speeds (333MHz). HOO BOY! It was worth it. I left the RAM in that configuration until I could justify buying another 2x512 PC3200 for the total of 4x512 that I have now.

[Blackhearted]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

ok the verdict is in

i added 2x512 meg sticks of 400mhz DDR.
the only system change i made was reducing the command rate from 1T to 2T.

no more choppiness in BF2. in the beginning when i would load a new map, i would die 1-2 times because the first 1-2 minutes would be very choppy. after that it smoothed out, although now and then id experience a little twitch or two as i drove into a new area or was turning around in circles.

now, there is no more of that. not a single twitch, and when i load into a map it is smooth from the beginning. a lot of people have been complaining about that problem - well, heres the solution.

unfortunately, i seem to have taken a 10 FPS hit for some reason. i have no idea why, perhaps it is from going from 1T to 2T. so it runs smoother now because i have enough RAM to load pretty much the entire level and all the BF2 junk at once, without any paging, but it runs a bit 'slower'. so its not a 100% successful upgrade, but still - i think i can live with it and will leave it in longer and see... now rather than an average of 75-80FPS im getting an average of 65-68ish. still very playable, although i could almost be running at 2x AA in my old setup at these speeds, although with some jerkiness as i described.

[Blackhearted]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

also, my GPU score took a 1100 point dive in aquamark. thats almost a 10% performance hit

i know aquamark isnt the greatest benchmark, but still.. it says something.

[Talus]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

Wow...I wouldn't have expected that

I got no FPS drop whatsoever...

[knghtwhosaysni]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

After seeing the AM2 preview on Tomshardware.com, I don't think that AM2 will be that big of an increase in performance. Of course, the memory controller was buggy, but really, how much of a difference in performance can you get for equipment that's only gonna be $5-10 more than socket 939?
It totally depends on how much money you're willing to spend, but I would suggest getting 2x1gb of ram first (maybe sell your current sticks?), and then a PCIe mobo and a 7800gt if you can afford it. The eVGA 7800gt/mobo deal is pretty good, or you can get the $250 7800gt and a mobo of your choice.

[Drexor69]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

if i buy another pair of 512meg sticks and go to 2 gigs, then i have to drop down from 1T command rate to 2T.
in 99% of cases, that is a significant performance DECREASE (5-20%) as opposed to an increase, even considering the extra gig of memory. perhaps this is different with Intel systems, but with the amd64 its a known limitation... unless of course i ditch my RAM entirely and get 2 sticks: 2x1024.

i dont really want to shell out a ton of money for memory that will be obsolete by the end of summer. with my next rig i will buy 2x1024 DDR2 800mhz to start. but with the winchester core, and Abit AV8 motherboard, going 2 gigs with 4 sticks will be a performance downgrade in a lot of ways, and 2x1024 will cost me minimum $300 canadian +tax, and ill be left with a gig of decent ram rotting on my desk.

if i had $hitty ram to begin with, and was already running at 2T, id make the plunge instantly. but im at 1T with some decent timings so i dont know...

You should be able to get a good 2GB kit for around $200. Cheaper than a video card and you'll be glad you did it.

[DrunkenPirate]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

He has gone with 2x512 already...

[Blackhearted]

Re: Question for Nvidia users...

After seeing the AM2 preview on Tomshardware.com, I don't think that AM2 will be that big of an increase in performance. Of course, the memory controller was buggy, but really, how much of a difference in performance can you get for equipment that's only gonna be $5-10 more than socket 939?
It totally depends on how much money you're willing to spend, but I would suggest getting 2x1gb of ram first (maybe sell your current sticks?), and then a PCIe mobo and a 7800gt if you can afford it. The eVGA 7800gt/mobo deal is pretty good, or you can get the $250 7800gt and a mobo of your choice.

remember when DDR first came out? people said the same thing - that when benchmarked the performance increase wasnt that significant. they said the same thing for 64-bit processors - are still saying it in fact.

there are other improvements besides the DDR2. but, even *if* DDR2 offers no performance benefit at all (which wont be the case), when both intel and AMD switch to DDR2 support it will be far more cost effective.


btw:
i added 2x412 sticks of DDR 400 and dropped down from 1T command rate to 2T command rate. my system is now smoother, yet slower overall it looks like i lost 5-10 FPS but i no longer experience ANY stuttering at all.
i think ill stick with it though - i tried some renders in 3ds max and working with some huge files in photoshop, and they definitely approve of the mem upgrade.

ive been looking at benchmarks and an AGP card looks like an all-round bad idea for me right now. the 7800GS (or 6800gs) looks like the best AGP option right now but doesnt even come close to comparably priced PCI-E cards like the 7800GT.
to get a 7800GT im looking at minimum $550-600 for a PCI-E board and the card. then the fact that i have a perfectly good 939 board and 6600gt laying around would compel me to buy a new processor as well so that i can make use of it - id hate to just leave em to root on a shelf, thats half a comp right there. so were looking at a $800-900 upgrade all of a sudden. BF2 doesnt look that bad at my settings, i think ill wait and put that money into an AM2 board and the best price/performance ratio x2 processor for it at the time.