Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

[BigChris]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

Well I can definately see the difference between 85 & 100 HZ. Either your eyesight is bad or your monitor doesn't support it, also your eyes won't get so sore in long sessions. Ingame in the video options for diff resolutions it has the choice for frequencies still at 85Hz

[FLYWAYchat]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

I can see a big difference between 60 and 85. At 60 i see a type of flicker which gives me a massive headache if i look at my screen for too long.

As for the orginal poster, your monitor may support upto 120hz or whatever, bu the higher resolution you go the lower the max refresh rate you can have. Probably at the res you are playing at 85hz max is all the monitor can handle. Do not try to force it above that or you may cause damage.

U may see it w/ lateral vision. But the direct vision works at 20 - 25.
Besides, this issue of monitors handling of 160Hz... this remind me those guys, having their cars w/ 800watt sound power but the device only gives out 200watt... meaning, probably he won't see 1 grafic card able to handle much more than 100Hz.

[Tenshi]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

30 hertz is crapo, tvs dont actually work at 30 Hz they work at 60.

Saying that our eyes work at 60 Hz (even if its true - which i doubt) doesnt mean we can't percieve anything above 60Hz. Just like people say cd quality is comparable to what humans hear...just marketing nonsense.

[FLYWAYchat]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

30 hertz is crapo, tvs dont actually work at 30 Hz they work at 60.

U should learn a bit of this... tvs resolve the screen in a "interlaced" fashion (this sounds a litle portuguish, anyway), each half-screen is refreshed at 60Hz. The all screen is refreshed at 30Hz.

[Tenshi]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

U should learn a bit of this... tvs resolve the screen in a "interlaced" fashion (this sounds a litle portuguish, anyway), each half-screen is refreshed at 60Hz. The all screen is refreshed at 30Hz.

ye i know...ok tvs fake 60Hz. But the TVs do display at 60Hz. TV signals are 30. Just like running a monitor at 60 doesnt mean the game runs at 60.


But tvs also, by nature, have very good temporal antialiasing...whereas computer games have none (yet). So saying that games run at 60 (or 90 or 160) frames a second is a matter for discussion. Also the brightness of the image affects the perception of framerate. I imagine contrast probably does aswell.

besides which, saying our eyes work at xHz doesnt give the full picture. I mean, if our eyes work at 60 does that mean every frame we take is exactly 1/60? or is it less (or even more)? This makes a huge difference. What if some display frames fall in the gaps?

[FLYWAYchat]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

ye i know...ok tvs fake 60Hz. But the TVs do display at 60Hz. TV signals are 30. Just like running a monitor at 60 doesnt mean the game runs at 60.

By the contrary, signals go for the 60, the complete screen (every single line) is refreshed at 30, at 60 only the interlaced half screen is refreshed. Nowadays we r talking about 50/100Hz (european, ofcrs).
For the rest, ur right.

[FLYWAYchat]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

http://amo.net/nt/02-21-01fps.html < everything you ever wanted to know about how the eye works and why we can ALL see over 30fps, over 70fps, over 200fps, etc, etc

That guy knows alot about. But the problem here is much more simple than that. The speed of brains also counts. In game as in a theatre, you r concentrated in what ur doing/ seeing, not in the flashing screen.

[Tenshi]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

For every second of footage...30 images are transmitted. Back in the day, they knew they need to show 60 fps for it to look real...but they didnt have the bandwidth so they transmitted 30 and got the tv to interpolate overy other frame. Which is very clever...it would be cool if graphics card frame buffers could refresh like that. But i suppose it depends what you concider a 'refresh'.

I mean a tv displays a full frame, then a half-and-half frame, then the next full frame. But if it only refreshes half the frame each time, then its 30...but if you concider the interpolated frames as a refresh...

...but tvs do and can display at 60 Hz...you can set some console games to run at 60 rather than 50.

[Tenshi]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

That guy knows alot about. But the problem here is much more simple than that. The speed of brains also counts. In game as in a theatre, you r concentrated in what ur doing/ seeing, not in the flashing screen.

...and that speed is? I can see where that article was trying to go but it wasnt very good.

"Now since the first CRT TV was released, televisions have been running at 30 Frames Per Second. TV's in homes today use the standard 60Hz (Hertz) refresh rate. This equates to 60/2 which equals 30 Frames Per Second." - eh?

"Secondly, because the frame rate is 1/2 the refresh rate, transitions between frames go a lot smoother. Without going into detail and making this a 30 page article discussing advanced physics, I think you'll understand those points." - brushed over something quite important relating to where we get 30fps from...

"With motion blur, those two refreshes per frame give the impression of two frames to our eyes." - nonsense

"Even if you could put motion blur into games, it would be a waste. " - totally incorrect

" Regardless of any objects speed, it maintains a fixed position in space time. " - not 100% true.

LOL, sry for the rant.

[FLYWAYchat]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

...and that speed is?

Don't know, but remember, u can see a movie at 24pfs.
It's considered the max efective transmition of changing info into it.
U can see a flasing dot at 1/200sec, but if it flashes 3/200times changing the color at 1/200sec, u'll not be able to tell which color it (flash dot) passed thru. Got it?

[Tenshi]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

"A picosecond is one trillionth of a second, so in reality, theoretically, we can calculate our eyes "response time" and then on to theoretical frames per second (but I won't even go there now). Keep reading." - lol

[Teaves]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

That guy knows alot about. But the problem here is much more simple than that. The speed of brains also counts. In game as in a theatre, you r concentrated in what ur doing/ seeing, not in the flashing screen.

I know that, you know that, but as for the people i am trying to persuade.......

Thats why that article uses more technical aspects of the (lack of) limitations to our eyes. In truth our eyes and brains are such highly advanced peices of equipment the very idea that such a simple and low limit exists to our visual comprehension would be laughable if it wasnt for the fact so many people seem to believe it!

[Tenshi]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

Like i said its just marketing.

That article reads like it was written by a very pretentious 5 year old. Cinemas dont work at the same framerate as tvs and the stuff about motion blurs is nonsense. Next generation games will start to use motion blur, meaning they can run at 30 frames a second and look FAR more realistic than current games running at higher framerates: in the same way that a antialiased game at 800x600 looks arguably better than higher res without AA.

I dont believe that its possible for out brains to cope with a literally continuous stream of data, even if that data is collected continuously...at some point our brains must sample it at a particular sampling frequency. Presumably that frequency is higher for our periferal vision to improve motion detection. That would mean that at some point the way we see becomes 'frames'. What our eyes are theoretically capable of is irrelevent if at some point our brain just say "i want this framerate" - just to control the amount of data through our nerves.

[FLYWAYchat]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

I know that, you know that, but as for the people i am trying to persuade.......

Thats why that article uses more technical aspects of the (lack of) limitations to our eyes. In truth our eyes and brains are such highly advanced peices of equipment the very idea that such a simple and low limit exists to our visual comprehension would be laughable if it wasnt for the fact so many people seem to believe it!

There u go....
Got the point.
I usually say, the machine's great... the pilot,... man, u should change him.

Cheers.

[Gunny Highway]

Re: Higher display frequency than 85Hz?

Teaves the links to the two articles at amo.net are great, I use them myself when ppl start spreading the same myth over and over again.

@ BigChris, have you installed drivers for your monitor or are you using MS plug&play drivers?? If you are using MS drivers you will often be limited to 85 Hz and lack of all resolutions even if you monitor supports more. To solve it use the drivers made for the monitor from the manufacturer of your monitor.

It is very commen not to install drivers for monitors because Windows plug&play monitor drivers are available and seem to work okay, but as with other hardware you should use the drivers made for it, e.g. you wouldn't use the plug&play drivers for a gfx card, same applies to monitors.